Response on abortion issue

I absolutely agree with helen.

And to the posters that suggest that to abort the child to save the life of the mother is showing a lack of faith in God's abilities...
I certainly hope, that none of you have ever set foot inside a hospital.

It is a horrible choice to make, a choice between the death of the child and the death of both the child and mother, we should be compassionate to those in such a position.

To start accusing them of having no faith in God is extremely hypocritical, and in no way loving.

Women die from untreated tubal pregnancy. This is a fact. Spend some time talking to nurses who have seen first hand the results of untreated tubal pregnancy. Offer love and prayer to the women that have had to face the sad prospect of losing their unborn child.
These actions are far more productive that mocking up sarcastic songs Mr Botwinick.

-KFC

 

I must wholeheartedly agree with kungfoochristian.

Tubal pregnancies are 100% fatal to the mother. I have a sister in law who almost died from an undiagnosed tubal pregnancy. Her death would have resulted in a widowed husband and two motherless toddlers. She didn't smoke, drink, take chemical birth control, or do any of the things that would place her at a higher risk for a tubal pregnancy.

Those who are saying ectopic pregnancy terminations are because of "faithlessness" are simply making a determination based on emotion rather then biblical assuredness.

 

I am sure God certainly appreciates knowing what his limits are...

 

That's two uses of sarcasm for arguments sake within two posts.

Do you have a non-sarcastic P.O.V. ?

 

Yes I do.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I pray this is one choice I never have to make. However, bringing God into this as though some have a lack of faith, or to the others that God cannot act, I think goes beyond our rights, really.

What if it isn't abortion. What if it is a car wreck and the car is about to explode and you can save only one in time? Do we stand back and expect God to miraculously change things? Do we just go on and act as though he can't and you are at it alone?

Again, I hope I never have to make such a decision.

I have talked to my wife about this. Given an extreme situation, I will choose my wife and leave the child to the arms of God. I don't say this smugly at all. My heart breaks to hear of the loss of a child. I do take comfort in knowing that no one dies a day before God has ordained.

 

Any abortion is killing a person. I think the ONLY way for it to not be murder is if it can be seen as self defense. But even self defense is contrary to the Sermon on the Mount.

I think a good analogy is this: imagine you are crossing a rope bridge over a deep chasm when halfway across you notice that the ropes supporting the bridge are extremely frayed and that any extra weight will certainly cause them to snap. Horrifically you see a blind man walking toward the bridge from the far side. You try warning him, but the wind is too high, your screams can't be heard. He's getting closer and you know the moment he steps on the bridge you both will die. At this point you remember your revolver - it's an easy shot, do you kill the blind man to save yourself?

 

Dear Timothy,
Not quite. Because in the case of ectopic pregnancy, your choices are: the baby dies, or the mother and the baby die. In all cases of ectopic pregnancy, the baby dies, because there is no way to save it. But it is possible to save the mother, usually.

Karen

 

With the ectopic pregnancy, either you both die, or you kill the innocent baby who will inadvertantly lead to both of your deaths. It's same with my analogy - either you both die, or you kill the innocent blind man who will inadvertantly lead to both of your deaths.

I don't think just doing whatever leads to the smallest amount of death is biblically justifiable. For example, imagine that 2 people are stranded on an island without food. They know that they will eventually be rescued, but by that time they will have both starved to death. Would one be justified in murdering and eating his companion? Of course not. The ends do not justify the means. We cannot simply look the number to deaths or lives saved to determine the correct course of action.

[ September 23, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: timothy 1769 ]

 

Timothy, you incorrectly said:

An ectopic pregnancy is NOT the same as a tubal pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancies can and do result in healthy babies and moms. On the closed thread (Teen dies after taking abortion pill) I posted photos of babies born from ectopic pregnancies.

Diane

 

Karen, you are also wrong. You said:

A web search shows many ectopic babies who are born healthy. We need to differentiate between TUBAL pregnancies and ectopic which only means a child carried outside the womb. On the previous/ closed thread, I posted pictures of a baby carried in her mommies liver!

Diane

 

An ectopic pregnancy is NOT the same as a tubal pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancies can and do result in healthy babies and moms. On the closed thread (Teen dies after taking abortion pill) I posted photos of babies born from ectopic pregnancies.

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]You're right. Please imagine I said tubal instead.

 

Gina, that is why I corrected Timothy and Karen. I did not understand the different types of ectopic pregnancies and had seen all these wonderful pictures of babies born from ectopic pregnancies. (Which, as you said, only means out of place and does NOT always mean located in the fallopian tubes.)

We DO need to use the correct terms so we're talking about the same thing! Thanks for those links.

Diane

 

A web search shows many ectopic babies who are born healthy. We need to differentiate between TUBAL pregnancies and ectopic which only means a child carried outside the womb....

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Diane,
I agree that careful wording is important (a later post of yours) but if you will search sites such as those of the Centers for Disease Control, they consider the terms tubal pregnancy and ectopic pregnancy the same.
Regardless, my point remains that in a TUBAL pregnancy, at least one is going to die, ie. the baby. If nothing is done, the baby and the mother will die.

Karen