Rethinking our Terminology

Tom,

Since you asked...

First, I am very uncomfortable with labels derived from a man's name "Calvinism".
Others are OK with it but I try to avoid it.

Even theological labels seem off target to me e.g. "dispensationalist", "Covenant theologian" although I don't mind "Trinitarian" or "OSAS".

I suppose some labeling is necessary in this age of myriad flavors of Christianity.

In essence, I can't reconcile (in my own mind) the Sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man in the salvation of the human race;

The Sovereignty of God:
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The reponsibility of man:
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

The essence of it all in my mind is the "want to" both of God and the human recipients of this salvation.

In my own case, after a fearful encounter with the OT Scriptures, I still wanted God but I knew I was too wicked to be accepted by Him.

In the NT (particularly the Gospel of John) I understood Christ and trusted Him for forgiveness and eternal life and He took away the fear and guilt.

Now I have no problem with the fear or the understanding part as from God alone but the "want to" is my dilemma.

If God put the "want to" within me then it's fatalism, a kind of a mechanical thing, a heavenly charade and I'm a kind of puppet (though I know I'm not).

On the other hand, if the "want to" came from me then I have something good about me.

So, I just leave it alone knowing that there was nothing good about me that I should "want to" be His child or that He for any reason should "want to" redeem me .


HankD

[ February 04, 2006, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Tom

The Jews DID believe.The Jewish people ALREADY were convicted in their heart of sin and that they had crucified their own Messiah. They were then instructed by Peter to repent of their sin and be baptized.

So it was a huge altar call to the Jews to accept Christ. First-Peter's sermon to the Jews. Second-The Holy Spirit convicted the Jews of their wrong doing. Third-The Jews now believed Jesus was their Messiah. Fourth-Peter now instructed them to Repent and be Baptized.

 

S&N - If the sick man in James 5 is a lost man, why does James say "Is any sick among you"? (If I knew how to underline on these posts, I would put a line under the word "you" there.) And what is your understanding of I John 1:9 (and context)? Do the saved not sin, and not need to confess?
Is it not more likely that James assumes the sickness may have been caused by specific sins?
We must distinguish between "sin" and "sins," singular and plural. The sin-principle condemns; specific sins bring specific judgments. Best in Him - Charles Blair - Ro. 8:28

 

Tom

I have presented my case. If you choose not to care to win souls to Christ in your church, then you must answer to God for it. I am just sad that you belong to such a church that does not invite the lost to come forward to receive Christ. You have lost the burden to win the lost and that is tragic.

 

Ron Arndt,
I've had about a belly full of you. Tom told you yesterday in quite clear terms our church has invitations much in the way you describe. He told you twice he was speaking for himself. You either don't listen, or have a real problem with the English language

 

With all due respect, (and I know none of those involved) this is a cheap shot, and questions one's motives as well.
Ed

 

Brethren, though we should correct one another, shouldn't we avoid making these comparisons among ourselves?

NKJV 2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

"pray for one another".

HankD

 

RD - "Production" is a good word for what I wanted to describe. We owe my friend Tom a rousing vote of thanks for raising this provocative question; sorry some have misunderstood. I can assure you that he and the church where he is a member are as much concerned for the lost as any of us - they have built churches overseas, and are standing faithful in their place. Thre is so much secular humanism in our church life that the question "What does the Scripture actually teach?" is almost ignored. I have heard people say, "Well, I know the Bible says that, but I don't want to do it!" Of course most of us "dress that up" a bit with "changing circumstances," "different world," etc., but it boils down to the same thing.

Hope all of you have a great week in the Lord - I do seek to remember in prayer those who post in these threads. Best - Charles - Ro. 8:28

 

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

HankD

 

AMEN HankD!!!!

 

Here is one which is used more often than the Revelation 22:17 passage.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Here is another passage which amazingly covers both the Sovereignty of God and the Responsibility of man in the salvation invitation:

Matthew 11
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

HankD

 

I think I'm having that same dream.