Rev. 22:17

It is addressed to those who are outside the gates, 22:14. <G>

 

Context is everything Southern. Your questions regarding this passage are inappropriate.

First this has nothing to do with Salvation! The reason is this. The New Jerusalem, the HOLY CITY whose four walls are each 1500 miles in length and height, is on the New Earth because this earth that we live on today has passed away, and the final judgment Revelation 20:14,15 has taken place. So salvation is not the issue here.

There is no mention of "coming to the Son", it is rather coming to the water of the river of life. My gracious, where does the water come from? It flows from the Throne of God, down the streets of Gold with the trees of life on either side of the river.

A better question would be, Why is there a river of life if we already have everlasting life through believing in Jesus?

 

Don't think so! All one needs to dispell the "glorious doctrines of Grace" is a clear understanding of what grace is! If you are Calvinist, then you do not have such an understanding of Grace! The result will be that you get the props kicked right out from under you if that is your position.

Let me tell you, I am not Calvinist, nor am I Arminian, both of whom were mere mortals just as you and I are. I am Christian!

 

Hi Southern;
This also tells us who they are and they are the whole world.
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
May God Give You light then Peace;
Mike

 

or 'deplorable doctines of entrapment?'

Even an alleged "Totally Depraved" sinner created in the'image of God' [James 3;9] has enough thought process to understand that this "Unconditional Election" and "Limited Atonement" is antithetical to a view of a good and Christian God.

 

This is the weaselage and bait-and-switch deceptive ad tactic that Calvinists typically attribute to God.

They claim that God is using lawyer-eeze sleeze tactics to make it "appear" that all are given the invitation "freely" but then say "And by all I mean all of those in my backyard" - and "by who so ever will I mean those who I select out to will from among the many that I will not allow to WILL".

If their god uses such low moral tactics to make it "Appear" that he is doing one thing while really doing another - how then can we expect them to be good lawyers or advertising business people? Even by our compromised standards today - such deceptive marketing practices are despised.

Why attribute them to God just to defend Calvinism when it is confronted with Arminian texts?

Seems like a horrible trade.

In Christ,

Bob

 

This scene is after this old earth and old heaven has passed away, after the millennial reign of Jesus on this earth. And after the judgement! The new heaven and earth with the New Jerusalem are the scene. To use this passage of scripture to support any position in the here and now is sheer stupidity.

 

Southern,
I have no interest in "becoming" calvinist, arminian, or being directly affiliated with any denomination! I may attend Baptist churches, but I do not affiliate with a baptist denomination.

My faith and trust is in Jesus, the Christ, I am Christian. That is, I am not a hyphenated Christian, e.g. Calvin-Christian, Baptist-Christian, Methodist-Christian, Pauline-Christian, Catholic-Christian, etc.

 

When Calvinism is confronted by disconfirming texts - it responds by editing the text or arguing from the void.

In this case - we see an open invitation to all -

Rev. 22: 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

But Calvinism takes each of these unlimited texts and "limits them".

When Christ says "COME unto ME ALL that are weary" in Matt 11 - Calvinism is "stuck". It can't claim that the lost sinners are not burdened by sin - so it says "ALL who I ALLOW and enable selectively -- COME to ME". Inserting qualifier after qualifier in unqualified free invitations from Christ.

Rev 22 is no exception.

Even in places where the language is PERFECT for the Arminian view and devastating to Calvinism - it must edit. "HE is the atoning sacrifice for OUR SINS and NOT for OUR SINS only but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" Clearly using the SAME terms that Arminians would use to describe Arminianism - and NOT using the "language of Calvinism".

God is "NOT WILLING for ANY to Perish but for ALL to come to repentance" -- Again PERFECT Aminian language never found as the way to define Calvinism EVEN by Calvinists.

Christ COMES into the World and "enlightens EVERY one of mankind" John 1 - another perfect Arminian text ASIS - yet totally unnacceptable to Calvinism - in that you never see Calvinists "DEFINE" Calvinism with such Arminian terms.

And Rev 22 is no exception. The pattern simply persists here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I do not see how anyone can miss the fact that Jesus is the one doing the inviting. The Spirit is the Holy Spirit who urges us to come to faith in Jesus, and the Bride are all the believers in Jesus, who also invite all others to come too!

How can you Calvinists not see that truth? The invitation is open to ALL mankind.

 

Read Rev 21:9 to see what the angel says the New Jerusalem is. You will then find it is very relevant to this discussion.

 

Why start verse 9? Why not verse 1?

 

Fine with me. Either way the New Jerusalem is the Church.

 

Man, some of you guys are pretty dense . Calvinism does not dispute that. What Calvinism says is what God says ... that whosoever will may come. The only ones who come are the ones who are willing. YOu guys want to focus on the "whosoever" so much that you seem to forget that "will" part of it. You always end up with bad theology when you leave certain parts of it out.

Calvinism is the truth about salvation. No one here is dodging verses. Bob knows better than to try to make that claim fly. Calvinism simply explains the verses accurately, and in the context of other Scripture. It does not single out only the verses that make one point.

 

There is absolutely no way that you can honestly read the text of Scripture and come to that conclusion. That doesn't even make sense. Where do you get this stuff from?