1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Revelation 9

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by th1bill, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. th1bill

    th1bill Member
    Site Supporter

    Sep 20, 2009
    Likes Received:
    Revelation 9:1:
    And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    This, by itself is a major topic in our day with the Liberal Christian (oxymoron) and the more fundamental Bible Believing Christian. To begin with, there has been a redefinition of Hell and with that, a great deal of coherent understanding is lost. To begin with, some of the early fathers of the Faith considered Hell to include Abraham´s Buxom, a.k.a. Paradise, to be in Hell producing the statement that Jesus spent His three days of death in Hell preaching to the Old Testament Saints. With my Submissive to the Holy Spirit Bible Study of the past 21+ years it has been made clear to me that Hell and Paradise, not Heaven, were never together. Yes, both are or were in the Spiritual Realm but as we see in Luke 16:26, there is a great space between the two.

    The whole problem begins with our attempts to relate the Spiritual Realm with our world when we cannot do that! In Matt. 27:52-53 we see that Jesus released the Saints, just after His death, and they poured through the streets of the Holy city, just moments after His death. And in the Bible we learn that a day in Heaven can be liken unto a thousand years here on earth showing that thee is no reference between earth and the Spirit Realm.

    The point of all this is that many, today, make the Bottomless Pit to be Hell and it is not, Hell is the waiting place until the Final Judgment.

    Revelation 9:2:
    And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

    This is a great matter to study. The eternal abode, it seems, has been connected to the time/space continuum of the earth.

    Revelation 9:3:
    And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    Revelation 9:4:
    And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    The 144,000 have been excepted of the punishing sting and possibly death of these vicious pests.

    Revelation 9:5:
    And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

    Revelation 9:6:
    And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    If there is any death, at all, from this it will be preferred to the suffering from the bite.

    Revelation 9:7:
    And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

    Revelation 9:8:
    And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

    Revelation 9:9:
    And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

    Revelation 9:10:
    And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

    This can be taken two ways. In class this past Sunday the popular view was that the one bitten would suffer the pain from a single bite for five months and my personal opinion (no specifics from the Holy Spirit) is that the plague of these will be for five months.

    Revelation 9:11:
    And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

    Revelation 9:12:
    One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

    The Futurist View, better known as the Liberalist´s View is that this passage and, for that matter, all of the Book of The Revelation is metaphorical. I, however, will never be found in that camp except the LORD change my mind. It is a pat rule of Hermeneutics that any scripture cannot be understood without the light of all other scripture shinning on it. Therefore it is required that you, by God, have read all of the Bible and that you use all of the other input from there to understand this or any other portion of scripture. With that accomplished, many times past, it becomes apparent to me when a part of a passage, chapter or book in metaphorical.

    The metaphorical view, as it was explained by the proponent of this view, in class Sunday, includes the king mentioned here to be the king over the people on the earth instead of, as the scripture, clearly states, the king over these evil and nasty Grass-hoppers. To go down this rabbit trail is to place one´s self over and above God! I am one of His, many, purchased slaves, of whom He has made His Children by adoption and will never, for even a moment, believe I can tell my Father anything.

    In summation, God has said what He has said and I believe there will be an evil infestation over the face of the earth that I desire no part with. And yes, the awful bottomless pit is a reality and is not metaphorical.

    Revelation 9:13:
    And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

    Revelation 9:14:
    Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

    Revelation 9:15:
    And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    This portion, I also take for what is written and this, being factual, sets us up for the next fact.

    Revelation 9:16:
    And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

    Revelation 9:17:
    And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

    Revelation 9:18:
    By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

    Revelation 9:19:
    For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

    This is tricky! Verses 16 – 19 are a metaphor about a truth that is known to many and will be a terrible force when set into motion... and they stand, this day, ready to move! There is now a highway from China to the Euphrates River for China´s quarter of a million man Army to make this trip over now. Add to that the Haditha Dam is nine kilometers long and can dry the river for the crossing of the troops.

    Revelation 9:20:
    And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    Revelation 9:21:
    Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    No matter how you count it, one third or two thirds dead, there is a horrible slaughter taking place here. At the moment the world is just a few weeks short of passing the 6,000,000,000 population mark and each third, right now is two billion people! And the survivors still do not repent!
  2. beameup

    beameup Member

    May 20, 2011
    Likes Received:
    I believe that the pre-flood fallen angels that abandoned their supernatural angelic bodies in order to cohabit with daughters of Adam (see Gen 6)
    were thrown into Tartarus "the dark abode of woe". When Satan is cast from heaven onto the earth (ie: angel = star) he will release
    these creatures from Tartarus at the appropriate time and these are the "locusts" described in Revelation 9.

    Jude 6
    And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [οἰκητήριον = heavenly/glorified body],
    he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    BTW, οἰκητήριον is also used in 2 Cor 5:2 to describe the glorified body we will receive.

    Definitely not a good time to be on the Earth.
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Jul 28, 2009
    Likes Received:
    ....Hal Lindsey says those locusts are helicopters....
  4. th1bill

    th1bill Member
    Site Supporter

    Sep 20, 2009
    Likes Received:
    The old fossil pulls his Stingy Brim back from his glasses and stilling himself, types,

    Angels are spirit beings and have no relationship with the Time/Space Continuum except God gives them, not only His permission but also a body to use. God has no part with sin! He knows everything, past, present and future or the entire thing is a hoax!

    It was a custom to call the sons and daughters of the lineage of Seth the sons or daughters of God and the sons or daughters of Cain the sons or daughters of Man. Without years of study in the Word, this knowledge of the practices of the time period is essential to understand the oft, mis ¨interpreted¨ passage of scripture referenced here.

    Since nothing happens that God is not aware of before it happens and since Angels cannot interact within the Time/Space continuum created by God without His consent the notion that any Angel copulated with any human is nonsense.
  5. beameup

    beameup Member

    May 20, 2011
    Likes Received:
    The term translated "the Sons of God" is, in the Hebrew, B'nai HaElohim, "Sons of Elohim," which is a term consistently used in the Old Testament for angels,
    and it is never used of believers in the Old Testament.
    It was so understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, by the Septuagint translators in the 3rd century before Christ, and by the early church fathers.

    That the sons of God [B'nai HaElohim] saw the daughters of men [bath 'adam] that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    There were giants [Nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God [B'nai HaElohim] came in unto the daughters of men [bath 'adam],
    and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
    - Genesis 6:2&4

    It was in the 5th century a.d. that the "angel" interpretation of Genesis 6 was increasingly viewed as an embarrassment when attacked by critics.
    (Furthermore, the worship of angels had begun within the church. Also, celibacy had also become an institution of the church. The "angel" view
    of Genesis 6 was feared as impacting these views.) Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the traditional "angel" belief to attack Christianity.
    Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable ground. Cyril of Alexandria also repudiated the orthodox "angel"
    position with the "line of Seth" interpretation. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed into the Middle Ages.
    It is still widely taught today among many churches who find the literal "angel" view a bit disturbing. There are many outstanding
    Bible teachers who still defend this view rather than just accept the text as is.

    The strange events recorded in Genesis 6 were understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, as well as the Septuagint translators, as referring to
    fallen angels procreating weird hybrid offspring with human women-known as the "Nephilim." So it was also understood by the early church fathers.
    These bizarre events are also echoed in the legends and myths of every ancient culture upon the earth: the ancient Greeks, the Egyptians,
    the Hindus, the South Sea Islanders, the American Indians, and virtually all the others.

    I'm sure that Enoch, as one of the two witnesses in Revelation, will provide all the details to (genetic) Israelites of the pre-flood civilization when he arrives during the Tribulation.