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Revelations 18 - Did we 'miss' an end-time sign on 9-11?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by SpiritualMadMan, Jun 26, 2004.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Indeed Jew and Gentile - are "real Israel" in the sense of Romans 11 where all branches are grafted into the one vine.

    But the main persecuting power for the Christian church at the time of John writing revelation in 90 AD was pagan Rome. It would dominate the church for about 500 years as the main persecuting power. Then would come Papal Rome for 1260 years -

    But the subjugated - destroyed - ash heap known in 90 AD as old Jerusalem - was NOT the focus for the NT Christian church as it looked into the future -- for obvious reasons.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Rosell The style of writing is apocalyptic, common from about 300 B.C. to about A.D. 125-150, especially in middle eastern traditions. The symbols in the book identify places and people known to the first century Christians in those seven churches, including the use of Babylon as a substitute for Rome.

    Indeed. In Rev 17 Babylon is the city of the seven hills -- Rome.

    Peter writes from Rome saing that "she who is in Babylon" greets you.

    In Rev 18 she is the great end-time power that has compromised with all the major nations of earth and has engaged in the end times - in the persecution of the saints.

    It is Rome.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. J4KC35

    J4KC35 New Member

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    I say we all just live our lives, and when the time comes, it comes.
     
  4. eschatologist

    eschatologist New Member

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    Great reply Grasshopper!
     
  5. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Interesting Bob you seem to get your theology from study notes. Also intereseting you use a Bible found on a Catholic page.

    http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.htm

    Now I understand why you don't respond to questions. The notes simply don't address my questions. Example Rev 1:1-3

    Revelation
    Chapter 1

    1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
    2
    who gives witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ by reporting what he saw.
    3
    Blessed is the one 2 who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and heed what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.

    No commentary on vs 1 " what must happen soon"
    No commentary on vs 3 " time is near"
    http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation1.htm


    Likewise Rev. 22:20
    12 The one who gives this testimony says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

    no commentary on what "coming soon" means.

    No commentary from NAB equates to no answers from BobRyan.
     
  6. panza1_99

    panza1_99 New Member

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    Question: Wasn't John a prisoner on the Island of Patmos, during the reign of Domitian [a.d. 81-96]?

    Question: Rev.11 has to do with the Temple of God and the two witnesses...right?
     
  7. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    My answer to both of your questions is yes. Although you will find some on this board and in the churches that don't agree about the time of John's captivity or the time of the writing of the Revelation.

    Bro Tony
     
  8. panza1_99

    panza1_99 New Member

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    Thank you for your answer Bro Tony.
     
  9. eschatologist

    eschatologist New Member

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    Yes, and I am one who disagrees with the late date. Most of the early church held to the early date. All the support(and I mean ALL) for the late date is traced back to a statement made by Polycarp and quoted by Irenaeus. And there arises debate as to just what Polycarp was inferring: Did he see John or the vision toward the end of Domitian's reign? The word used in the translation is 'it' which could mean either. Following the pattern of his discussion and paragraph seems more likely and fluid to me that he was continuing his discussion about John.
    I rely more on the 'internal' evidence for my conclusion. For instance, John mentions that there were some going around claiming to be one of the apostles. If written in 95-96AD that would hardly be relevent, as it was a foregone conclusion that John was the only apostle left, as the others were slain decades before. Likewise there was a pretty significant Jewish persecution being waged against the church as mentioned in the letters to the seven churches of Asia. This would be all but improbable due to the fact that by 95-96AD the Jews were an insignificant power, being massacred, sold as slaves, and deported throughout thr Roman Empire as a result of the war in 70AD. Also John in chapter 11 saw the Temple and was told to measure it. This was a symbolic action and you could say that John might have seen it in his mind, but I believe that he saw it because it was still standing and significant structure. These are but a few of the 'internal' evidences found. There are also the 'time' statements in Revelation which are important, such as "soon" and "near" as well as tons of 'external' evidence which few people take the time to examine, excepting one thread of evidence and ignorring the rest.
     
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