1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Revelation's Harlot

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Bro. Curtis, Oct 11, 2002.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    First of all the REAL case is much worse than the source above claims.

    Notice that the source does NOT say only Catholics are saved. IT specifically identifies the case where "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it"

    So far that specific point from the source has not been refuted on this thread WITH a quote to the contrary.

    The quote about Muslims posted earlier does not address the claim above since they DO NOT believe " that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ".

    This thread has covered up the fact that Vatican II created a CHANGE in policy toward non-Catholics from sending them all to hell, to the next step back - ALLOWING them to go to purgatory (AND THEN to heaven after some time in Purgatory - max time in fact) BUT NOT under the New Covenant.

     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Dr Carroll of EWTN confirms that the Catholic church has only recently allowed non-Catholics into heaven IF they are "ignorant" of the claims of the RCC. He also admits that the term "New Covenant" applies ONLY to the Catholic Mass.

    The case before the 19th century for Protestants was NOT ONLY that they could not be saved under the New Covenant (as the claim is today that they indeed CAN not be saved under the NEw Covenant - but must be saved ANOTHER way) - it was that they could not be saved AT ALL as the previous post points out.

    All this has been covered up in the responses so far in defense of the RCC when responding to Curtis.

    How misleading.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. jasonW*

    jasonW* New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    0
    [SARCASM]This, of course, cannot be true as it would show what many on this board have pointed out all along; the catholic church has and does change doctrine. Change, thereby implying error or misunderstanding, would discredit the guise of infallibilty, thus showing (rather, exposing) the catholic church's false claims. So, this simply has to be another fabrication by the hellish protestant miscreants whose anti-catholic bias is present in all they do. How sad[/SARCASM]
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    21,985
    Likes Received:
    470
    Faith:
    Baptist

    "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."


    In my opinion, this point has been ignored. The quote is from a reputable source, even if the RCC considers it a hateful source.

    There are also too many other statements in the document to doubt that the RCC claims itself as the only true path to salvation. Read the document yourself, and decide.
    Exerpts from the New Catholic Catechism

    The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.

    820 Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose

    882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."

    1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God ... The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.

    1493 One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.

    1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church.


    These are just the points that deal with the RCC's claims of being the only true church of Christ.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Point well made Jason - even if in sarcasm.

    Instead of addressing their own historic documents from Pope Boniface VIII to the first Vatican Council and any council in between (Florence comes to mind) - they simply complain that bringing up these RC documents casts a bad light on the church so they should not be quoted.

    What is worse is that the criticism Curtis got on his source - was for a quote that actually IS in line with RC doctrine as the historic documents quoted previously show. Why pick THAT to complain about?

    It is unclear to me that such a complaint is a compelling argument in favor of the RCC.

    IN Christ,

    Bob

    [ November 25, 2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  6. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Getting back to the original question

    IMHO Jerusalem is Babylon,

    Back in July I met a young Catholic scholar, Mike Barber?sp? from Carson's school. Who is supposed to come out with a book providing line by line discussion on the Book of Revelation. So I wont try to repeat his work here but the amount of scripture pointing to Jerusalem as Babylon is overwhelming.

    For any city to be Babylon it must fit all that scripture reveals about Babylon, For example as it relates to the Blood of the prophets.

    REVELATION ON BABYLON

    Revelation 17:5-6
    "On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.’ I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her I was greatly amazed."

    Revelation 18:24
    24 In her was found the blood of prophets and holy ones and all who have been slain on the earth."

    JESUS ON JERUSALEM AS RECORDED IN LUKE AND MATTHEW

    Luke 11:47-51

    "Woe to you! You build the memorials of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. Consequently, you bear witness and give consent to the deeds of your ancestors, for they killed them and you do the building. Therefore, the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles; some of them they will kill(future tense) and persecute’ in order that THIS GENERATION MIGHT BE CHARGED WITH THE BLOOD OF ALL THE PROPHETS SHED SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who died between the altar and the temple building. YES I TELL YOU THIS GENERATION WILL BE CHARGED WITH THEIR BLOOD.”

    Luke 13:31-34

    "At that time some Pharisees came to him and said, ‘Go away, leave this area because Herod wants to kill you.’ … Yet I must continue on my way today, tomorrow, and the following day, FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT A PROPHET SHOULD DIE OUTSIDE OF JERUSALEM.’ ‘JERUSALEM, JERUSALEM YOU WHO KILL THE PROPHETS and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling !’

    Matthew 23:29-36;

    " ‘Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the memorials of the righteous, and you say, "If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have joined them in shedding the prophets’ blood." Thus you bear witness against yourselves that you are the children of those who murdered the prophets; now fill up what your ancestors measured out ! You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna ? Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill(FUTURE TENSE) and crucify, some of them you will scourge(FUTURE TENSE) in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood shed upon earth, from the righteous blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.’ "

    God Bless

    Dennis
     
Loading...