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Rick Warren & "Resisters", Those Believers Who Refuse To Change

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by IveyLeaguer, Jun 28, 2006.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Classic...blame RW because someone has left their wife to find their "purpose"... and not the person who is actually commiting the sin. He must have read the book through the same glasses as those in this thread :rolleyes:
     
    #41 webdog, Jun 30, 2006
  2. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    #42 2BHizown, Jun 30, 2006
  3. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    Actually... if a pastor signs on to do Warrens, purpose driven church series, they have to sign a "contract" that states they will only preach Warren's sermon's and play the music he wants played.

    How do I know this because I used to attend a church that "signed up" to do that series. So this is not spoken in ignorance.
     
    #43 BD17, Jun 30, 2006
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Maybe not ignorance, but not fully informed. Our Church did likewise, and there is no "contract" whatsoever. The pastor, worship leader and all small group leaders agreed to no such thing. This is absurd, and whoever told you this was less than truthful, to say it kindly.
     
    #44 webdog, Jun 30, 2006
  5. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    funny...we didn't have to...neither did the two sister churches near us...
     
    #45 rbell, Jun 30, 2006
  6. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    #46 J.D., Jun 30, 2006
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Man, a calvinist agreeing with a calvinistic site...imagine that!
     
    #47 webdog, Jun 30, 2006
  8. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Oh there are PLENTY of anti-warren arminians out there and you know it.
     
    #48 J.D., Jun 30, 2006
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Who cares and what's the point? There's plenty of anti-webdog arminians, too. So what? I'm supposed to hold RW up to other people's opinions? That sight has a problem with RW's "salvation is offered to all" (as any normal calvinist would), how he referenced the Scripture in the back, and his choice of translations. The main parts of the book are not argued (5 purposes, except the point on soteriology).
     
    #49 webdog, Jun 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2006
  10. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Right. I don't like that site and have avoided it for 3 or 4 years now. Unfortunately, there are people in the discernment community who may be well meaning but go way too far, and end up doing as much harm as good.

    The thing about the discernment (or watchman) ministry is you better be called of God to do it. And you must spend the majority of your time in the hard grind of maintaining balance, knowing that the judgment of another's work or ministry is a serious and "terrible" thing.

    Anyway, here's a piece that gives a pretty good idea of the methodology used to deal with "resisters".

    Dealing With Resisters

    :Fish:
     
    #50 IveyLeaguer, Jun 30, 2006
  11. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Right. I don't like that site and have avoided it for 3 or 4 years now. Unfortunately, there are people in the discernment community who may be well meaning but go way too far, and end up doing as much harm as good.

    The thing about the discernment (or watchman) ministry is you better be called of God to do it. And you must spend the majority of your time in the hard grind of maintaining balance, knowing that the judgment of another's work or ministry is a serious and "terrible" thing.

    Anyway, here's a piece that gives a pretty good idea of the methodology used to deal with "resisters".

    Dealing With Resisters

    :Fish:
     
    #51 IveyLeaguer, Jun 30, 2006
  12. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    ​
    No doubt this should rattle any Christian that knows the Bible, and it does unsettle many. But the most unsettling thing is to behold the great majority who are not bothered by it at all.

    This leads into ecumenical unification, the P.E.A.C.E plan, and other geopolitical connections which is off-topic but something every Christian should be keeping a sharp eye on.

    :Fish:
     
    #52 IveyLeaguer, Jun 30, 2006
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    What "second reformation" is RW talking about?

     
    #53 webdog, Jun 30, 2006
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Hello,

    Thanks IveyLeaguer for sharing your thoughts and the links. We each will follow the path we see fit that honors God in the way we see God. This link is yet another reason I stay away from this type of church. Others see it as a reason to join. As said before, this is not new, its the same thing tried before under a new hat using new key words to mass a following. What is new, are the number of Baptist churches that have fallen into this way of thinking. This has ecumenical wrote all over the face of it. Not that we must follow every notion of the past, but there were good reason why just 100 years ago our Baptist fathers resisted such ties. It has only taken us a short season to forget our stand.

    Rick Warren’s approach to church growth is a man-centered pragmatism. Of course our churches will grow faster if we please men and give them what they want. Yet, the BIBLE says we are to please God, not men. The idea of separatist will not be held by some in the Baptist faith nowadays. Rather, we see a ridicule of the old fashioned, and a disdain for separatist. There are things we can learn from Rick. Yet we cannot fall for "anything goes" view of worship. Even if your church takes up this means of church growth, you must place stop signs on growth where paths lead to dishonor.


    In Christ...James
     
    #54 Jarthur001, Jun 30, 2006
  15. OrovilleTim

    OrovilleTim New Member

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    I saw the subject and wandered in here. I've had some real uncomfortable feelings about Warren. Not when I "plugged in" doing the PDL (twice!), but when I did some real soulsearching on many of the changes that a Church is "forced" through to conform with his ideas.

    When I was digging around I came across Paul Proctor. A lot of what he said reall resonanted with what I felt inside. But, I thought "oh, he's just bitter over something", but so much of it made sense and fit with what I had always beleived, but it was so un-"touchy feely" like I'd been being conditioned to lately.

    I am glad to see that there are other "resisters" out there too. I don't feel so alone. I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy, but I do know that "something ain't right".
     
    #55 OrovilleTim, Jun 30, 2006
  16. JJB

    JJB New Member

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    Info Please

    I am looking at the links that people have provided about RW, many thanks. Does anyone know of a site that has done some detailed study of his book and church and provided analysis. I don't have the time and energy to look into him and appreciate any direction.
     
    #56 JJB, Jun 30, 2006
  17. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Go to newswithviews.com and check out the Paul Proctor archives. I've been reading his articles for years. He's got the goods on RW.
     
    #57 J.D., Jun 30, 2006
  18. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Bob DeWaay is very solid and has a new, very good book out about PDL. Here's one of his older articles that is a pretty good place to start. He wrote several good ones after this one, and they are in the archive a page back from this article:

    Critical Issues Commentary, January 2004

    I agree with J.D. that Proctor's articles have depth and there is an archive there. His articles go back to 2001 and he is as knowledgeable about what's going on as anybody. Proctor is hard-hitting, wastes no words, and will go right up to line - but I don't recall him ever crossing it.

    Paul Proctor Archive

    Godspeed!

    :Fish:
     
    #58 IveyLeaguer, Jun 30, 2006
  19. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Well said. I agree.

    :Fish:
     
    #59 IveyLeaguer, Jun 30, 2006
  20. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Absolutely true! The church has had a purpose since Christ said, "upon this rock......"
     
    #60 tinytim, Jun 30, 2006
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