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Featured Romans 9 and Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Sep 16, 2021.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Like a fly at the picnic table. :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao
     
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You understood what I said. I’m not talking about irresistible grace (effective calling of God Holy Spirit), but of the grace God imparts to believers after salvation to persevere in the faith during persecution.

    The context of Romans 5 clearly shows the “access” to this grace comes after salvation that gives believers peace with God.

    peace to you
     
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I admit God has granted repentance to the Gentiles but notice your verse says they' "may" implying if they are willing This leaves there Salvation up to them.. You did not give reference from where you got this verse.
    MB
     
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  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I would say about your post here. I have presented scripture in the first post of the first thread on this subject. If you weren't so blind you might of read it.
    MB
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    From my side of the street, you are creating a view that will not wash. Into grace means to enter into grace, not move about within grace, your claim. There is no actual support for Calvinism anywhere in scripture with the exception of once saved, always saved. The TULI of the TULIP doctrines are all precluded by scripture, such as the "T" being nullified by Romans 5:2. We enter into grace by faith, not the other way around...

    Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
    through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2; NASB20)
     
    #105 Van, Sep 23, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    We are justified by faith. This is a legal, judicial argument that God declares, as judge, on our behalf. It is the faith, which God has given us, that is our justification to stand in righteousness in Christ Jesus before God the Father.

    The Bible tells us that we are saved by grace, not by works. We are not saved by faith. This seems to perhaps be your stumbling stone.
    We are justified by faith, but not saved by faith. We are saved by grace. (Ephesians 2:1-10)
    In Ephesians, Paul tells us that faith is not of ourselves, but is the gift of God, which, in Romans, sets us free from guilt of sin. In Hebrews 12, we see that this faith, given to us by God, is authored and completed by Jesus. Therefore, we have no cause to boast. Everything that we are, before the throne of God, is entirely because of Christ Jesus.

    Hopefully, the lightbulb will turn on for you. I am not sure I can make it anymore simple than this for you.
     
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  7. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    ...being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, Romans 3:24-25
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Great verse. It's all God, not us. It's not our free will choice, it's God's elective choice.
     
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  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You don't have any truth.
    Eph_2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you—of God the gift,
    Rom_8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
    Faith is hope.
    There is no grace from God with out the faith to receive it.
    MB
     
    #109 MB, Sep 23, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I do not look at scripture thinking “Calvinism”. I just try to understand scripture in context.

    We disagree on Romans 5. No need to continue making the same statements over and over.

    peace to you
     
  11. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    See response #58 in this thread...
    Reconciling Paul, Hebrews and James
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So...you preach salvation by your own work of faith, which causes God to act. There is no other way to read your post.
     
    #112 AustinC, Sep 23, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    That comment wasn’t directed toward you.

    I’m sure you think the comment in the other thread is important. If you want to comment, please feel free to do so. I’ll not chase down comments in other threads and try to figure out the connection you see. Thanks anyway.

    peace to you
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, no need to continue.
    Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
    through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2; NASB20)
     
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And it doesn't say whosoever, it says whosoever believes.
     
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 5:1-6 demonstrates Calvinism is false...

    We gained access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Thus we were saved by grace "by reason of our faith being credited as righteousness by God, by which we gained access to God's saving grace!!
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    ...it's a sure bet you cannot see what your bolded words declare.

    Romans 4 directs our thoughts to understand Romans 5.

    Would Abraham have believed had God not spoke to him and given Abraham the capacity to believe?

    Romans 4:1-4,11-14,16-17,20-25

    What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about,but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

    He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

    For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.

    That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.


    Romans 5:1-11

    Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained accessby faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    Van, do you not read that "while we were still sinners Christ died for...US"? Do you not see that?

    Do you not see that "while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God" by Jesus?

    How is it that you imagine it is your personal faith that impresses God?
     
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  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Your accusation isn't true. It's false as always.
    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    I've shown this to you before but you still insist on believing the lie that I saved my self..
    MB
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Explain your statement:
    "There is no grace from God with out the faith to receive it."

    Whose faith is it? Who authored it? Who finishes it?
     
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  20. sharmamanik061

    sharmamanik061 New Member

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    May I suggest that salvation is offered to those who trust in the risen Christ not the self appointed members of an exclusive club. Some theological schools of thought have made the very simple quite complex.
     
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