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Romney is Fast Rising as a Serious Contender

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Dec 13, 2006.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is not a voter's guide.
     
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Possibly none. However God's Word is what I strive to obey and He clearly tells me to not be yoked with unbelievers. Asking a unbeliever to represent me would clearly fall under sin.

    I was asked to give scripture and I have given scripture to support my comments but all I have received is a statement saying that it does not with no explanation as to why it does not.

    I asked for scripture which would cause a believer to conclude that it is ok to seperate one's civil life from one's spiritual life. I was given one, Luke 20:25, and I disagreed but also gave REASON why I disagreed with that scripture being applied to my question.

    I have yet to see an explanation as to why it is wrong for me to apply the scriptures I have to this issue.

    Once again it is disheartening to hear a Christian make such a statement. We are given many titles in this life. Father, son, brother, sister, salesman, woodworker, farmer, teacher, clerk, congressmen, police officer, etc, etc, and even a "voter". As a Christian the Bible is my guide to ALL decisions I must make in my life and should be as well for all professing believers....

    Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psa 119:105.

    Why should I not apply this Word to every decision I must make in life? Would that be foolish? Why would you cut God out of the loop in your decision on voting?

    "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
    Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
    For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
    (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
    Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
    And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Eph 5:5-11)

    Romney unfortunately is an idolater and an unbeliever. We should pray for his salvation but we should not be partakers with him in government. It is God's Word, I only point it out.

    God Bless!
     
    #22 steaver, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2006
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    In your estimation, does buying merchandise from a store owned by a nonbeliever or that employs nonbelievers bring glory to God? Do you only purchase items from stores that are owned and operated by believers and that employ only believers?
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I gave your questions some careful consideration and searched my heart and mind for an honest answer before my Lord. I would have to say that the purchase in and of itself only matters considering just what it is being purchased. Say a loaf of bread would have nothing to do with bringing glory to God one way or the other. Yet a purchase of porn magazines would obviously not bring glory to God, even more so if you are well known by others to confess the Lord Jesus as Savior and King. So just what is being purchased would have to be considered.

    Now does the fact that the store is owned by a nonbeliever dishoner God in any way? I would have to say no. Does purchasing in this store actually bring God glory? I would have to say no as well. But I conclude that purchasing a non-sinful item from a non-believer is not a sin, however one could bring glory to God through the purchase just by being kind and polite to the cashier..."thank you...Lord bless you...you have a wonderful day".

    Now of course making a purchase from a nonbeliever and asking a nonbeliever to represent you are two very different issues! Scripture teaches us the difference and warns us to be part of the world but do not yoke up with the lost as in marriages, partnerships and representatives. I would not hire a nonbelieving lawyer to represent me either. It goes against God's principles.

    Romney may be a wonderful man and have wonderful attributes, but i cannot go against scripture on the matter of unbelief. There will be other canidates arise. God knows who! I am just waiting for the reveal.

    God Bless!
     
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    So are we to understand that you have no problem with lining the pockets of an unbeliever who may take the money you gave him and purchase pornography or who knows what else?
     
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    That is correct, unless I have some foreknowledge of his goals. I can only control myself and the money God has given me by the grace given me from the Holy Spirit. If the merchant blantantly advertises that he needs you to purchase your goods from him in order that he may spend it on sinful pleasures, then I would go to another store. Otherwise, I cannot know or control the money once it leaves my hand. It all boils down to knowledge. I know Romney is an unbeliever, therefore according to scripture I must not ask him to represent me.

    I have taken time to carefully consider your questions and give you an answer even though they really are mixing apples and oranges. As I said, making a purchase from a nonbeliever and asking a nonbeliever to represent you are two very different issues. And now you continue with yet another rabbit trail away from the issue of "representation" (being yoked together with the unbelieving).

    Maybe you could take some time to consider my questions and give answer to the scriptures I have set forth showing me why those scriptures should not be applied to voting?

    God Bless!
     
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    ...more from the false prophet Joseph Smith...

    "He called me by my name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people".

    "He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitant; Also that there were two stones in silver bows-and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim-deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted Seers in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book."

    Everybody following this balony so far? Remember, Mormons believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. Do you really want a man who believes this stuff representing you? It only gets "better"....

    God Bless!
     
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    ........more Joseph Smith...

    "Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken-for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled-I should not show them to any person; niether the breatsplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. While he was conversing with me about the plates, the vision was opened to my mind that I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I visited it".............
     
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Joseph goes on to tell how this messenger returns a second time and repeats everything word for word. And then returns a third time to repeat the same word for word as well adding some more tid bits at which time he awakes to hearing a cock crow.

    Sounding familiar to anyone?

    He goes on about telling his dad and his dad said it was from God and he must obey the messenger.

    Then Joseph retrieves the golden plates from the earth where God had them hid!

    "Convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York, stands a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood. On the west side of this hill, not far from the top, under a stone of considerable size, lay the plates, deposited in a stone box. This stone was thick and rounding in the middle on the upper side, and thinner towards the edges, so that the middle part of it was visible above the ground, but the edge all around was covered with earth".

    "Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by the messenger. The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them".

    Joseph again saw the messenger and was told to let the plates there for four years but return to the place each year at the exact time every year......

    "Accordingly, as I had been commanded, I went at the end of each year, and at each time I found the same messenger there, and received instruction and intelligence from him at each of our interviews, respecting what the Lord was going to do, and how and in what manner His Kingdom was to be conducted in the last days".

    And so the Church of Jesus Christ and latter day Saints was born. And the lost swallowed this stuff hook line and sinker.

    Romney has yoked himself with a self proclaimed prophet, a obviously false prophet when compared to Scripture, and I would certainly not yoke myself with Romney!

    God Bless!
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I consider anyone who has come to Jesus in repentance and faith to be a fellow believer regardless of any theological difference I may have with him/her.
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Neither would I. Nor would I "yoke" myself with you or anyone else on this board.

    But I will vote for Romney for president in the 2008 GOP presidential preference primary in Arkansas. And I will urge others to do the same in their states.
     
  12. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    I dont think you would like him so much if you had experience with LDS polititions. If you consider yourself a Libertarian a Mormon politition is the last thing you want.

    I realise this is a secular job and I tend to agree to vote for the best person regardless of religion. However Mormons in power are obligated to do the bidding of their church. The LDS church and their polititions are all about imposing their standards on everybody.

    If you dont think Mitt will consult with the church before every decision, think about this.

    If you were elected (whatever) and you believed that Gods prophet walked the earth. Would you not consult the prophet to find out what god wanted before making decisions.

    Our AG consults openly with the church leadership before every big trial and decision he makes. Our Govener was in the church offices yesterday to go over his budget.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    In 1960 people were making similar accusations about John F. Kennedy and Catholicism. The accusations proved baseless then and I have no doubt they will be proven baseless about Mitt.

    In fact, evidently, they are already baseless as there was no problem with his Mormonism while he served as governor of Massachusetts. Nor was there evidently a problem with father's Mormonism when he served as the governor of Michigan in the 1960s.

    I am hopeful that by mid-2007 the issue of Mitt's Mormonism will no longer be a factor in the campaign except for a distinct minority who will not let go of their prejudice.
     
  14. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews New Member

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    So, Mormonism is going to get a vote of approval from a segment of evangelical Christians, then. Because that is exactly how they will use it.
     
  15. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    The difference is that Catholics are not obligated to consult with the Pope.

    Mormons are, trust me I have experiance with LDS polititions.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any proof that Mitt has done this while governor of Massachusetts or that his father did so while governor of Michigan? If you can't offer proof, then your argument carries no water.
     
  17. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20050604/ai_n14654266

    In case you were wondering, charitable deductions were NOT removed. The gov came up with a plan that allowed people to still deduct their tithing.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I don't care. That's not my problem nor my concern.
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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  20. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Baptist leaders are not considered prophets speaking the word of God out of their mouths. I dont care if the POTUS decides to talk to budist leaders. But when every decision has to be approved by the LDS prophet I have concerns.

    If libertarians are all about goverment staying out of peoples personal lifes as much as possable then trust me you do not want an LDS politition.

    I guess you have to live in Utah to see what I am talking about.
     
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