Ron Paul Odds Slashed Dramatically: 15 to 1 from 200 to 1

Jump, brother, your reasoning does not really make any sense. You believe that God would not want Christians to participate in government, yet this country's government was established by mainly Christians and obviously blessed by God.

Mosy every President, if not all, were confessing Christians. Now if God does not want Christians to participate, then why does He put them into power?

For almost the entire history of this nation, it has been established and governed by mostly Christians. Don't you think that maybe God does use Christians and wants Christians to participate?

We know the future will get worse for this country, not better, and I believe it gets worse because God's people begin to have attitudes towards it's own government like yours. I also believe that even though it must happen this way, we will still be accountable for our participation or lack thereof. There will be a falling away of the church, I pray that I can resist being part of that complacency(sp).

God Bless!

 

Brother with all due respect what you are failing to address is the need to vote. We are already in agreement that God doesn't need our vote to have His person elected, so what purpose does your vote serve? It certainly doesn't help God, so why does one need to bother?

Again what if that "godly" man is not the man God wanted in that position. You are directly acting against God's will by supporting/voting for someone other than His candidate. Is He just going to let that slip by?

I don't see it as silence. God says He is going to place the person He wants regardless of whether I vote or not. So if it's going to happen His way whether I vote or not, what is the point in wasting all the time and effort, when we could be doing something else?

 

It takes a few minutes to vote.

 

How does it not make any sense. God said He places rulers and He takes rulers out. He didn't say I place the rulers by your vote. He said I place the rulers and I take them out. I don't see how that doesn't make any sense.

What doesn't make sense is why a saved individual needs to waste their time and effort in getting prepared to vote via education of the candidates, etc. And then placing a vote that is meaningless. That truly doesn't make any sense.

I think God has used this country, but you are saying that God blessed open and active rebellion, which is spoken against in Scripture. I'm puzzled by that.

I do believe that God can use disobedience to further His plan. But no I do not believe God wants Christians to participate in the political system of this world. It is pointless.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, however God said He establishes the rulers and takes them down, so I don't see how I'm at fault for God's decisions?

So now not participating in a secular government is equated with the falling away of the church. Another HUGE stretch.

 

Not if you want to do it right it doesn't. Now granted the actual technical part that is true. However we all know there should be a LOT more involved in the process of voting than just showing up on election day and punching a chad.

 

Got proof? How does one spam a poll that you can only vote once in anyway? What's so hateful about http://www.prisonplanet.com/ , you don't like people trying to save America and your freedoms by getting information out the government and corporate MSM (Govcorp Inc.) is determined to keep hidden?

 

If it is one of those 3 I will join you my friend. The Constitution Party is looking better yet again.

 

But in the mean time, let's work to help Dr. Paul win the nomination. If we give up now, then we might as well be like the brother when he says we shouldn't vote.

A big part of the reason no "non-sanctioned" (meaning, not picked by the big boys in the parties) politician has won is because people, before even trying, give up hope. I have a cousin who said he would probably just support Giuliani since Paul has no chance. Well, if we tell others that he has no chance, then what incentive are we giving them to support him?

At this point in the game, anyone has a chance. You might say it's slim and none, but slim happens every once in a while.

Let's have a positive attitude and tell our friends about Dr. Paul and his message. Get excited and those you tell will get excited too.

 

Jump,

Think back in history.

You believe and I agree that it is God who establishes governments. It is God who raises them up and it is God who brings them down according to His purposes.

The historical evidence shows that it was almost 100% Christians who banned together to declare independence and begin a new nation, in fact "One Nation under God" and the God they had in mind and was eluding too was indeed the God of our Bible.

Therefore, it is evident that it was God using Christians, His people, to establish the USA. It is evident that it was for His people's benefit and for the world's benefit that He has done this.

Will it go bad? Of course it will. Will it sin? Of course it will. Will God tear the USA down one day? I believe He will.

However, it is absolutely wrong thinking to say that God does not want Christians involved in this country's politics when we know for a fact that it was God who motivated His Christians to form it in the first place.

Does God want His Christians to pull out and let it go to the pagans? Or is it us Christians who are letting it go and God is letting it happen to our own demise and for His future purposes?

Either way, we will be held individually accountable for what we failed to do just as much as for what we did do.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Your thinking this out in the wrong way brother. Is God's way meaningless? Maybe it is God's gift to His children to have the opportunity to have a voice as to who governs over them. Will your voice always win? Of course not, but how does that justify quiting?

God established a government were His children could have the individual freedom to have a say in who governs over them. If you want to throw that freedom of choice back at God's feet then do so at your own accountability, but I believe God will individually judge us in all things, and if we had a opportunity given by God to cast a vote (which is speaking up for God) for righteousness, whether we thought it would make a difference or not, we ought to do it.

Who was it that God told to go and preach repentance to but said, and by the way, they will not listen to you? We must speak out even if we think it will not change the world or anything. We must do what is right because God expects us to try even if we think it looks hopeless. Why not speak out and cast your vote, you don't know the results for sure unless you are God. But we do have a judgment day to go to and whether or not it would have mattered to the world, i believe it will matter to God that we tried.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I am not sure I would vote for Ron Paul either. I would really have to study Thompson, Huckabee, Gingrich, or any other Republican including Paul before I voted for them. However, none of the top 3 (Rudy, McCain, or Romney) would receive my vote for sure.

I wonder when Thompson and Newt come out and officially enter the race. I like Newt to be honest...

 

You mean like he was in his family life with his wife and family, back when??

Ed

 

I know he has baggage, but who doesn't? He is a true conservative and is smart and experienced.

He says he has repented from all of his mistakes he made regarding his cheating.

 

I am not completely sure but I am sure he has some. I bet if he gains enough popularity into the top 3 some will come out from somewhere.

 

This cracks me up. I'm saying let God do what God is going to do and I'm the one thinking this out wrong. Hmmm....

NO. That's my whole point. God is going to put whomever HE chooses into the office of president and every other political office in the United States despite how I or any other "Christian" votes.

So again do you all think He is just going to brush under the carpet you open, active rebellion against HIS person when you vote for the one guy/gal? You think He's just going to say well it's okay I really wanted person A and you voted for person B, but let's just act as though it didn't happen.

You really think there are no consequences for opposing God?

If you want to stick your neck out on a "maybe" you are more than welcome, but I'm not going to and I encourage others not to as well. Maybes just aren't good enough.

If "my" voice is EVER winning we have a problem. It should ALWAYS be GOD'S voice winning and His alone.

You see I just don't see that in Scripture. Yes God established the government of the United States, but that doesn't mean He wants His children to participate in it. There's no Scripural mandate for such participation.

Okay again this argument makes no sense. Let's just take the candidate of choice is this thread. If the Ron Paul supporters go out and vote for Ron Paul in the primary and he doesn't win then those voters have not in fact spoken for God, but have spoken against God.

The same goes in the regular election. If a vote is cast for the losing party then that vote was not speaking on behalf of God, but was speaking against God.

Exactly. We are to "preach" the good news, not vote. Voting is not preaching the good news. Voting is relying on something secular to fix something spiritual. Not a good combination.

I can't believe I have to keep repeating this. Why not? Because it doesn't matter. God is going to establish HIS choice not MY choice. The fact is I don't NEED to vote. I don't want to vote in the chance that I would be opposing God. That's enough for me.

Again so you think God is just going to give you a free pass for opposing His candidate when you vote for a republican and a democrat wins? See I don't think you get an atta boy and a slap on the back for rebelling against God.

 

That's a pretty bold statement to say that you know without a doubt that God motivated these people. According to Scripture I would say that's probably very inaccurate by the way. These people, while they were Christians, were directly disobeying the government that was put in charge over them.

So you are saying that God motivated His people to violate Scripture. I just don't see that happening.

And just because God uses disobedience for the futherance of His plan and purpose doesn't mean that the disobedience goes unnoticed.

 

Brother you are sounding like a Calvinist in your reasoning here. God is sovereign, but that doesn't mean that we cannot move God's hand through prayer, and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to make changes in areas that we have the power to make change. I believe that my daily food comes from God. I believe that if a hungry man gets fed, it will come from the Lord. Does that mean that if I feed that man, I am interfering with God's will? If I don't feed him, is it God's will that he go hungry? No, God's will is that we do good.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

It is said that all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Ultimately, evil will triumph, at least temporarily. But right now, there is a restraining influence on this earth that hinders Satan from being able to do what he would if he had free reign. But soon that influence will be removed.

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

We should be letting in any way we can. When God decides that it is time for evil to have its day, God will remove the obstacles, which are godly men doing what they can to hinder it.

 

Brother with all due respect again, do you really believe God is going to say well done for voting against His chosen leader?

David had several opportunities to "vote" Saul right out of the throne, but he did not. While humanly that would be perceived as a good thing, spiritually it would have been another blunder in David's resume.

God is going to put in power whomever He wants. This world system is not to be our focus. He is in control of the leadership regardless of my say. Again what if "my" say is directly opposed to "His" say. Am I really going to be positively rewarded for that on that day?

 

I wouldn't confuse a constitutional election with armed insurrection. It's one thing to submit to authority, its another to say its wrong to vote for who will wield that authority. Without a scripture to suggest that voting is somehow contrary to God's will, it seems to be my opinion against yours. Take it to a local level. What if there is a city wide election and on the ballot is a measure to allow nudie bars to be built across the street from elementary schools. Is it wrong for me to vote and make my opinion known that nudie bars ought not be across the street form elementary schools? How do I know it isn't God's will to have nudie bars across the street from elementary schools? If I voted against it, and it was God's will, would I be chastened for it?