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Roots of Arminianism

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by JGrayhound, Feb 21, 2003.

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  1. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound New Member

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    A lot of you guys want to try and refute Calvinism because of the people who first articulated the Biblical concepts its states. I still feel this a weak, ad hominem attack. We need to address the issues in light of Scripture, not because of the righteousness (and lack thereof) of the men involved. Augustine may have had more impact on theology (not just Calvinism, but ALL theology) than any other person in history. Accusing Calvinism of being catholic is obviously absurd.

    But, here's my point. Attacks on the men involved is weak and veiled arrogance. It also shows ignorance of the issues. Plus, it can be manipulated in any way.
    For those that have studied history, you know that the lines of theological history flow in weird ways. People change their minds, people get taught something then rebel. Luther was catholic, then left. Because of that people on this board claim that Luther never could shake his catholic roots. Well, Arminius studied under Theodore Beza. Beza, of course, was John Calvin's right-hand man. So, Arminius' roots go through Calvin. You guys claim Calvin was catholic because of his roots (wrong, but you still claim it), and Arminius' shares those roots because he follows the line of Calvin. Thus, Arminius is catholic as well (using y'alls reasoning). This makes everyones beliefs based in catholic thought.

    This should come as no surprise considering there was only one church for so long, but those on here who use this weak argument have shown a lack of understanding of history. I think I have shown right here that no matter what side of the discussion you are on, one cannot escape that roots are traced back to catholic teachers.

    So, we muct focus on what the Scripture says, and discuss that. The ad hominem attacks must stop because they profit nothing. Let's focus on what Scripture says....that's what we should have been doing all along.
     
    #1 JGrayhound, Feb 21, 2003
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen. [​IMG]
     
    #2 KenH, Feb 21, 2003
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    I second that Amen.

    Pelagius also tried to be reconciled with the catholic church and even sent a statement of faith in order to be "reinstated" and the claims of heresy withdrawn. It didn't last, but which is important -- the relationship between Pelagius and the catholic church? Or what Pelagius taught?
     
    #3 npetreley, Feb 21, 2003
  4. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Jgreyhound;
    I don't refute what you say in fact I agree except Jacobus Armininus wasn't a murderer.In fact he was martyred by the Catholics. Himself, his wife and Children.
    Romanbear
     
    #4 romanbear, Feb 21, 2003
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    So if you agree that the discussion ought to be about Scripture, why do you insist on bringing up things that have nothing to do with Scripture?? :confused: Let's discuss the theology and the Scriptures, not the men who may or may not have believed certain things.
     
    #5 Pastor Larry, Feb 21, 2003
  6. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Pastor Larry, I apologize for continuing the discussion, but I could not allow this statement to go uncorrected.

    Jacobus Armininus died of tuberculosis. His wife and children were supported by a clergy widow's pension in Amsterdam.
     
    #6 npetreley, Feb 21, 2003
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Thanks for pointing that out. I thought that "martyrdom" sounded a little fishy ... I started to look it up and then lost interest ... :D
     
    #7 Pastor Larry, Feb 21, 2003
  8. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Hi Npetreley;
    Not much proof of your position with out a reference
    Romanbear
     
    #8 romanbear, Feb 25, 2003
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Here you go. I'll even include the part about the nasty Calvinists, so you know this isn't an anti-Arminian page.

    http://www.victorshepherd.on.ca/Heritage/Arminius.htm


    Now - do you have a reference and proof of YOUR claim?
     
    #9 npetreley, Feb 25, 2003
  10. Bible-belted

    Bible-belted New Member

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    Considering you offered no reference either I don't think you should talk.
     
    #10 Bible-belted, Feb 25, 2003
  11. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Hi Nepetrely;
    I don't know if Armininus remarried after his wife and children were murdered in Odewater Holland. Massacred by Spanish Catholic Troops rumored to be Jesuits. Referenced in the works of James Armininus,Translated by James and William Nichols.(baker Book House 1986)His particular death I read about in a History book called Arminianism in History written in 1894.I checked it out from the library and don't have it in my possession. So I'm not sure of the authors name. But will keep an eye out for it the next time I go to the Library.
    As far as the site you reference I'm surprised that you would take the word of an Arminian since he didn't give a reference.
    Romanbear
     
    #11 romanbear, Feb 25, 2003
  12. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

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    Let's see Baptists were dissenters from the Church of England which itself had broke from Rome which would make BAPTISTS to be CATHOLICS!! :eek: :eek: [​IMG] :D
     
    #12 Kiffin, Feb 26, 2003
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