1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ROSES, a reasonable baptist position?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by quantumfaith, Nov 7, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Calvinist believe in limited atonement.

    Calvinists claim (at least they do on this board) that Christ only died for some not all.

    What is it I don't know?
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,376
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yea your on the money there Jimmy me lad. Had you studied it & had some understanding of it, then feel free to make comment....but this nonsense just reinforces that their is scant knowledge of it. That indicates much unfortunately
     
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Exactly what did I say that was false?
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    The atonement achieved on the cross is sufficient for all, but efficient for some. On the crosses themselves, Christ died and guaranteed one thief a place with Him upon death. But Christ was cruel not accepting the other? Or, did He pass him by to his own destiny?

    The limited atonement is established by God and His scriptures, and not by calvinists. All Israel shall be saved. If this is the literal, physical Israel, it failed. If it is the body Christ it is true. The total application of scripture makes it right.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seems to me like God can do whatever God wants. He's sovereign. Any free will on our part comes underneath the umbrella of God's sovereignty.
     
  6. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Big, big thumbs up.
     
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Christ didn't pass him by. The criminal passed Christ by.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,376
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jag....In all honesty Ive been watching & listening to this Subject Matter & heard some really ridiculous accusations. Rather than putting nonsense out there, go study the subject matter so at least you have an educated understanding of what your either supporting or rejecting...does that make sense?

    Try reading 'The Doctrines of Grace" by James Montgomery Boice & Philip Ryken. That will at least give you a basis.
     
  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
    Jim, I am being gentle and kind as I respond not angry or mean spirited. I understand that textual communication can be difficult at best for a "complete communication". So the following is just "as I see it".

    The atonement achieved on the cross is sufficient for all, but efficient for some.

    Forgive me but this sounds like "semantics". If it is only "efficient" for a pre-selected subset of humanity, then that can reasonably and easily interpreted as being for only some. (Limited Atonement)

    On the crosses themselves, Christ died and guaranteed one thief a place with Him upon death. But Christ was cruel not accepting the other? Or, did He pass him by to his own destiny?

    Again, as I see it, the one thief was promised to be in paradise, because He recognized and acknowledged who he was in the presence of, and seems to me quite possible that he exhibited a heart of repentance, while the other "chose" to continue to rail against Jesus and all others.

    The limited atonement is established by God and His scriptures, and not by calvinists

    Again, as I understand it, limited atonement is a theological construct attributed to John Calvin, probably more accurately Theodore Beza. It is itself and honest attempt of man to interpret meaning and purpose from the Holy Scriptures as related to atonement. It may or may not be a correct interpretation of the scriptures.

    The total application of scripture from cover to cover, yields one thing in my mind, God is LOVE and he acts in creation and sustenance and redemption because of the attribute of His. (Personal musing) He did not create because He was lonely, or bored, but because He LOVED. He was under no obligation to begin the process of redemption, but did so because He is Love.

    I John 4
     
  10. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, you can feel free to point out inconsistencies or discrepancies in what I say. I studied Calvin a good bit in grad school, though surely not quite as thoroughly as many. And my study of him has been more through the broader reformed tradition. I'd be interested to know what nonsense I've been putting out there.
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    23
    Once again we see this great barrier of communication between us. I think it is because you are half cocked when you start reading my posts. You didn't get what I was saying at all and then, bang! with the exclamation points.

    Easy, dog.

    Follow the parable of the sower Jesus told. Here are four different soils that experience the onset of life. Three of the four lose that life.

    Those three were not ever saved. But they did experience a type of spiritual regeneration. But the cares of this world, etc... choked the spiritual life out of their hearts and they became "twice dead..."

    These types are often your false teachers that Peter and Jude warns about. These are often they of whom it is said that they had escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and became entangled again.
     
  12. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    23
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    23
    Kudos! This is a tremendous statement!!

    This is where it's at folks. Right here!

    Get this and your theology will fix itself.

    Let God be God and do as he pleases because he alone does all things perfectly.
     
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    23
    I actually agree with part of this. But why did the one criminal pass him by while the other accepted him.

    Because God made the one willing and left the other to his own devices.

    The only other option is to declare that the one was better than the other; a claim for which you will find no biblical support whatsoever.

    The one was willing because God changed his heart.

    This is what God does to all before they can be saved.
     
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We both agree Luke. (Oh boy! To get Rip's agreement is not necessarily a good thing in some quarters.)
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,376
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jag, I was NOT referring to you. OK?
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,376
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
    #118 Earth Wind and Fire, Nov 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2010
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
    I would like to request that my fellow brothers and sisters in the faith, remember my wife Joyce and I in your prayers. We will shortly be traveling to Ireland for a time of vacation. Please pray for our safe travel, and perhaps that God would grant me (us) the opportunity to share my faith in the Word of God with any new friends I may encounter.
     
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    The exclamation point came from my shock that such a thing would be said. It continues because not only do you not deny it, you use the parable of the sower as your proof text in supporting it (which has to do with sowing truth, not who would be saved).

    Straight forward question...do you believe someone can pass from spiritual death to spiritual life and perish eternally?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...