Rules of Biblical Interpretation

True, but aren't the women in this passage doing something "leader-ish" -- praying and prophesying?

I would argue that Paul is wanting the people of the church in Corinth to maintain gender distinctions so that the gospel won't be hindered and the unity of the church won't be hurt.

 

1. True, but the women who prayed and prophesied should do so while respecting male leadership.

"For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (vv. 9, 10, NIV).

2. Paul is clearly making a point here of role distinctions.

 

I'm just curious, then how do vv.11-12 fit with your "role distinctions" idea?

 

1. Here's the grind: If there're no role distinctions, then Paul would simply be contradicting himself.

"In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God" (NIV).

2. Paul is simply stating that while there are role distinctions, both men and women are dependent on each other and are ultimately dependent on God.

 

Something else to consider is that Paul would be contradicting his own words in 1 Tim 2:12 if he were authorizing the Corinthian women to prophesy and pray in a mixed assembly.

 

I think that the way you are looking at it is valid and certainly is a faithful attempt at understanding this difficult text!

 

1. Paul affirms that when ALL come together ALL have a "prohecy, a tongue or a teaching" in 1Cor 14 and in that 1Cor 14 context he does not require that "only some men be allowed to speak".

2. Prophetess Anna speaks in synagogue at the presentation of the Messiah on the 8th day according to the gospels.

3. Deborah serves as both prophetess and judge of Israel.

But of course those two examples are before women were freed under the Gospel to remain silent if men are present in church.

Many churches today allow their women to sing in the congregation, some allow them to pray from the pulpit, many allow them to give announcements from the pulpit -- even to tell children's stories while men are still in the congregation during church!!

Hard to believe - but it happens!

And so we see that the practice of 1Cor 14 did not differ so much even from our own practice today. Particularly consistent with Paul's Eph 2 teaching that there is no spiritual distinction (in spiritual matters) between Jews and Greeks, slave and free, male and female.

The Spiritual law is that there is no difference between male and female as Paul instructs us in Eph 2.
The Bible "example" is that we have prophetess activity in the case of Deborah and Miriam and others "in scripture" (for those that have 66 books in their bibles ) and we have the NT example of Anna and Philip's daughters and all the women of Corinth.



in Christ,

Bob

 

It is hard for you to deny, though, that in this passage Paul speaks about women who are not being silent in public worship. They are praying and prophesying. Here, Paul never questions whether they should or shouldn't, just how they should.

 

HP,

This is not an easy issue. Are you Egalitarian or Complementarian? The answer to this question affects a person's interpretation.

 

If I'm Egalitarian, I see Paul as providing a temporary prohibition against some women at Ephesus who were influenced by the false teachers.

But this in no way is a permanent prohibition, since both males and females are one in Christ (Gal 3:28).

 

But if I'm a complementarian, I would see Paul's prohibition as permanent in the life of the church and not just because some women were influenced by the false teachers.

Then I would see that Gal 3:28 is referring to equality in salvation and not a nullification of role distinctions.

In any case, I'm a Paulinist.

 

HP, you have given me a daunting task. raying:

1. Well, Paul makes reference to some young widows who were troublemakers ( 1 Tim 5:11-15) and then 2 Tim 3:6-9. Now, this is at Ephesus.

2. Women received the gift of prophecy and prophesied in the local assembly of mix membership (Acts 2:17; 21:9; 1 Cor 11:5).

3. Phoebe was a deaconess (Gk. diakonos; Rom 16:1-3). There have been discoveries from the 2nd cen. demonstrating that women were deaconesses.

4. Paul mentions the name of two prominent women at Philippi (4:2).

5. Therefore 1 Tim 2:11-12 must be seen as only local.

6. At the cross and in Christ, roles distinctions have been nullified.

 

The passage in question:
1 Timothy 2:11-13 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

The principle that Paul sets forth, that is the why and the reason for the commands:'
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

This has nothing to do with the passage in question. Women are not to have authority over men or to teach men. So what if some in another church were trouble-makers. That is a red herring.

This was a fulfillment of prophecy; a unique and special event that happened during the first century. The spiritual gifts have ceased. This doesn't take place today. Even then it was not common for the women to prophecy. It was for the men to prophecy, preach, etc. Not for the women. To admit that this is a common thing for the women is a contradiction of Scripture. It contradicts the requirements of a deacon and a pastor. The word deacon is simply one that serves. It would include the one who prophesies, etc.

Phoebe was not a "deaconess" per se. The word means servant as it is correctly translated in the KJV. Diakonos simply means servant and should thus be translated also. A deacon is simply a servant, and nothing more. We put too much stress on the "office" of a deacon. Even the old English word "office" had more to do with "service" than that of holding any position.

Prominent in what way? Does it say that they had authority over men or that they were teachers of men?

There is nothing that you have said to warrant such a conclusion.

Yep! That's why I never prevented letting my wife step in the ring with Mohammed Ali.
She also plays one on one with Shaq.
She's entering the Olympics hoping to get gold in weight-lifting.

Where does the Bible say that "role distinctions" have been nullified? TC are you the one that gets pregnant in your family and gives birth to the children? Are you sure there is no role distinction??