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Russell Moore already yoked up with baby-baptizing 'Immanuel Church'

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jerome, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Lead Pastor TJ Tims: "We are thrilled to welcome Dr. Russell Moore as Minister in Residence, effective immediately. Even as we rejoice to serve Russell and his family as their new church home, he will also lead the Public Theology Project at Christianity Today."

     
  2. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Lead Pastor TJ Tims twittering [below] with Deacon Trey Suey about their church's pedo-baptisms.

    On the Immanuel Church website it says that Lead Pastor TJ Tims "was ordained into the Christian ministry by the First Baptist Church of Vincent, AL"

    very troubling!

    suey2.jpg

    Twitter
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Baptist or a Presbie church?
     
  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Clearly not Baptist!

    It's "Acts29"
    (the church's founder had pastored Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches prior)
     
  5. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    I'm speaking of Ray Ortlund:

    "Ray Ortlund...an Emeritus Council member of The Gospel Coalition. He founded Immanuel Church in Nashville, Tennessee, and now serves from Immanuel as Pastor to Pastors"

    Ortlund recently announced that he's put himself under the authority of the Anglican Church!

    "The Right Rev’d Clark W. P. Lowenfield, Bishop of the Diocese of the Western Gulf Coast in the Anglican Church in North America, has graciously called me to serve him as a Catechist and Canon Theologian. He has kindly extended the same call to my dear friend, The Rev’d Sam Allberry."

    "I will...keep worshiping at Immanuel Church. But now I rejoice in this added dimension of ministry"


    Here is Russell Moore's pastor's new superior:

    The Right Rev’d Clark W. P. Lowenfield, Anglican Bishop acna3.jpg
    acna4.jpg
    acna1.jpg
    acna2.jpg
     
    #5 Jerome, Jun 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2021
  6. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    This doesn't surprise me in the least. Russell Moore WAS NOT and IS NOT a Baptist. He NEVER DID hold to the Baptist and Bible fundamentals. After trying several times to communicate with him by letter and email, and even by phone, and getting no response to questions, I started describing him as an "interloper" in the SBC. I'm glad he's gone.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    The Kingdom of God is much larger than Baptist life.

    Baptists who cannot find a church willing to have them, or a 'Baptist' church that is sound, they often find fellowship with other Christians in churches affiliated with other denominations. My parents decided to join a Methodist church about 20 years ago when their local Baptist pastor pressured the congregation to receive the (apparently unrepentant) current 'grand dragon' of the local KKK chapter into the congregation and demanded that he not be baptized in any fashion because the man was afraid of water. (NOTE: That wasn't the only issue, but it was the last straw.) A few dozen members of that small rural Baptist church ended up joining the Methodist congregation down the road. Their convictions and doctrine were the same as always, but they found fellowship and service elsewhere.

    I am a member of a Baptist church, but if my church didn't exist, I'm not sure I could find a Baptist congregation where I could serve, given the severe shifts in Baptist life over the past 30 years.

    Regarding Moore specifically, I suspect he needs a break from Baptist life since he has been the target of so many attacks.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    A real Baptist though would not align with baby baptism churches!
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Anglican theology is not Baptist!
     
  10. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    If there is no Baptist church where he can be at home, I can see why an Anglican communion could be a place for healing and growth. The Kingdom of God is greater than Baptist life.

    To be blunt, I was formerly a member of an SBC church back in the early 1990s that had an AWANA program designed to teaching little children Bible verses. The leader of the program asked the children if they loved Jesus. If he received an affirmative (he always did), he considered it a profession of faith since they could "confess with their mouth" and "believe in their heart" (they said they loved Jesus!), so they were baptized from 3-5 years old. I had grave concerns about the practice. I know God saves some people that early, but most have to grow in comprehension before they come to a PERSONAL conviction of their need for Christ. In discussing the matter with the part-time evangelist (formerly full-time) that ran the program, I was informed I lacked faith and understanding of salvation and was condemned. But they were essentially baptizing toddlers at that "Baptist" church.

    The church where I grew up started pushing baptism HARD once we hit grade school (1st grade +) and essentially gave up at about 14. I felt intense pressure every week from teachers, who would occasionally call us out by name in front of the class as "those who don't love Jesus yet," as well as "those who are going to hell unless they accept Jesus." It angered me, since -- although I didn't know much, I knew that going through the motions was supposed to be ineffective (just like those darn Catholics!), yet they kept pushing me to go through the motions.

    When they finally stopped harassing me and gave me up for hell, I was at a youth event at another church and first heard the gospel in a way that made sense to me. I ended up coming to faith because of the work of the Spirit, not human tactics. Very few of the people I went through Sunday School with, who were baptized at a very young age, are Christians -- except for those who had a real conversation later in life.

    Correct. But shouldn't necessarily chose churches because the doctrine completely conforms to our own.
     
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The theology of the Church of England though would have infant baptism as way into salvation, the gate way, would baptists see it same way?
     
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    So THAT's what "blasphemy of the Spirit" means ... baptizing babies. ;)
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nope, that would be claiming infant regeration happens then!
     
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  14. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    NOTE: I messed up the formatting of the previous version of this response.

    No, you are once again in error.

    You should really attempt to learn about other people and groups before condemning them based on your ignorance. Anglicans baptize infants "because it is a sign of God’s promise that they are embraced in the covenant community of Christ’s Church. Those who in faith and repentance present infants to be baptized vow to raise them in the knowledge and fear of the Lord, with the expectation that they will one day profess full Christian faith as their own. (Deuteronomy 6:6–9; Proverbs 22:6; Mark 2:3–5; Acts 2:39; 16:25–34)”

    Most would not (and FWIW, I do not), but it is based on the idea of covenant community, the same way circumcision was for the children of Abraham. Jewish babies were circumcised on the eighth day as a sign that they are part of the household of faith. For Jews, the rite is intended to be the first step taken by the family of the boy to raise him as a keeper of the covenant. The circumcision doesn't mean that the child will stay within the grace of the covenant (just like infant baptism for many Christian groups), but it is a sign of the faith of the parents and God's blessing on the child.

    Take that as yet another lesson on condemning without having a clue as to what you are talking about. This is not hidden information.
     
  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Harrowing to say the least. Not so sure the bluntness is on your part there, or that blunt would adequately describe what they did.
     
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Church of England view regarding water baptism
    Anglican Views on Baptism | Synonym
    Article 27 states that baptism differentiates the baptized from those who are not baptized. Baptism confers a state of being Christian on the person, and those who are not baptized are not Christian. It is a profession of faith and parents who have their infants christened are displaying their faith. A baby can't make a choice, but the Anglican doctrine encourages infant baptism because it represents the possibility of salvation and rebirth. It also blesses the infant with divine grace and Church protection. However, unlike the Roman Catholic church, the Anglican baptismal doctrine doesn't insist that babies must be baptized, it merely states that infant baptism is "wise" and "agreeable." It is not a guarantee of salvation, but in the words of the Book of Common Prayer, it is "an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace."
     
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    You need to know that Anglicans in the United States are not part of the church of England. There is an Anglican Communion that about 40 different churches (aka denominations), including Anglicans, belong to, but they are different in some doctrine and social issues. The denomination in the Anglican Communion that is closest to the Church of England in the US is the Episcopalian Church.

    FWIW, Anglicans are MUCH more conservative on social and moral issues than Episcopalians and the Church of England.

    Remember that they define Christian as being a part of a community, in the household of the covenant of faith, like a Jewish boy who is circumcised. They do not insinuate that the child is a disciple of Jesus.

    It is similar to a "baby dedication" that many Baptist churches observe.

    They put a particular emphasis on passages such as:

    Acts 16:31 - They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
    1 Corinthians 7:14 - For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

    The Church of England specifically rejects baptismal regeneration, but sees baptism as something of a blessing and introduction to the grace of God.
     
  18. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church noted that the Book of Common Prayer preserved the traditional Catholic teaching concerning baptism (p. 127).

    Booty's edition of The Book of Common Prayer--1559 stated: "It is certain by God's Word that children being baptized have all things necessary for their salvation, and be undoubtedly saved" (p. 283).

    Marianne Dorman commented: “For Andrewes, the only way to become a Christian is through the sacrament of Baptism” (Lancelot Andrewes, p. 127). In a sermon, KJV translator Lancelot Andrewes asserted: “By Him we are regenerate at the first in our baptism” (Ninety-Six Sermons, Vol. III, p. 191).
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    far more then that, as water baptism to them is gateway into salvation!
     
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