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Enlighten us as to what this "scriptural approach" of oyurs is.

Who said anything about him hiring workers and not paying them??????????

That was just weird.

If you don't add weird stupid mess to the analogy, it stands just fine.

Which supports what I just said. He has gifts others do not have. We have an accord.

Who put him on a pedestal?

Besides, even if I did pastors have had to deal with morons and live in glass house many hundreds of years before I was born. So... you have no point.

Why?

Unity around what? What the heck is the POINT of unity if the people have no vision, no passion to fulfill the great commission.

Who said anything about a pastor asking for money? Could you stay on topic for one second?

This is about what the people OFFER the pastor- not about what he ASKS FOR.

Unspiritual people do not respect what he does.

That's what we are talking about.

Being educated for ministry is worldly? That's stupid.

I don't think you have the SLIGHTEST idea what biblical worldliness is.

see above

It should be every believers goal to prepare himself for what he needs to be in the pastorate and the pulpit???

That's stupid.

see above

Who said anything about browbeating?

You literally CAN'T stay on topic, can you????

 

Ummm, you're the one who wrote:

You think his "vision" is the only work in the church?
What if his "vision" didn't come from God? According to you,

If he's a good one. Boy, that's rich.



The apostle Paul had a "vision" for his missionary journeys, too. But it is VERY clear that not everything he conjured up was in keeping with the Holy Spirit:

Did Paul "push" his vision? Or did he obey the Holy Spirit?
You've got this idea that a pastor comes up with a "vision", then pushes it. That, my friend, is a worldly outlook on what a pastor is for. He's not a Fortune 500 CEO, he's a SHEPHERD.

You said nothing of gifts. You mentioned education, and being in the throes of criticism. Big difference. A WORLD of difference Paul said:

The worldly part is YOUR futile thinking that education is synonymous with the call of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, you put him on a pedestal. That's why you included a half concession, and you know it. Here is where:

He's not a Pope, man. He is a man, called of God for a specific purpose. And he's not supposed to building an organization, either. He's supposed to be tending to a flock.

GOD is the One with the vision, and pastors are supposed to exercise oversight according to the will of God. NOT under compulsion, like browbeating the flock into service to his pushing of a vision that he may have conjured up all on his own.

That displays your biblical ignorance

I don't see anything about "pushing a vision" here. Building up the saints in love has been the "vision" of the Holy Spirit since the church's inception.

Too many pastors are creating busy bodies, and don't take the care they need to in building up the saints.

Nobody said he's asking for money, but in some cases, it does happen. Look back through this thread, and you will see a specific example I gave. You're the one who was citing education and criticism as criteria that makes a pastor worth his paycheck.

I don't believe Paul ever mentioned either as grounds for pay

How many scripture verses can you come up with to support your worldly idea?

I never said anything like that. You said that he ought to be the most educated man on campus. I merely responded:

Twisting peoples' words doesn't go very far on the internet, you know. There is such a thing as a copy/paste feature.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I don't think you have any idea what biblical pastoring looks like

It should be every believer's goal to prepare himself for whatever he's called by God to do. I'm sure you noticed I didn't include the question of preparing for a sermon.

Dishonesty doesn't get you too far with God, you know?

Well established fact. My mother told me that at least 5,000 times when I was a kid. Good thing God still loves stupid people, I guess.

That's how you make it sound. Like he's got to twist peoples' arms with a promise of spiritual blessings. Can we have another look?

 

You have issues. You are insulting and ignorant on this subject. Furthermore you add to what people say and twist it to suit you. You obviously don't know anything about being a pastor. You don't know what biblical worldliness is. You are jealous of pastors who are well compensated for skills that you do not possess. You are envious and have a small man syndrome which drives you to cut down people who cast a shadow over you. You are insecure.

Nothing you have said changes the facts I shared.

Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it.

 

You get that by Word of Knowledge imparted to you by somebody like Benny Hinn?

I'm sure your "flock" appreciates being fleeced so that you can further your "vision"

 

What a shameful thing to say to try and cut another brother down. Sickening behavior and James has made you look foolish.

 

I really appreciate you. Thank you

 

the Scripture that says elders are to be accorded double honor should not be interpreted as putting them on a pedestal. the latter is a dangerous thing. I have been under pastors who claim the "touch not mine annointed" scripture as their "city of refuge" when somebody becomes critical.

 

Well this thread has gone downhill fast. Here is an idea, why don’t we leave pastoral compensation up to the individual churches. Isn’t that what most Baptists practice with our congregational leadership. If you don’t like what your church does, then you have a vote as a member. If you don’t like what some other church does you can feel free to criticize from afar, but what you think does not really matter, it’s not your church.

Pastors, like any other profession, and it is a job as well as a calling, are compensated based on the results. Get your church to grow, offerings increase, so can your compensation. If you can’t get people to follow and support your ministry perhaps you are doing something wrong. What about that God serving pastor who is not blessed financially? Well I think God is still in control. Is that “unfair?” You bet it is. God is not about fair, He is about Just. We have a Just God, not always a fair one.

 

Well stated. I appreciate you, man.

 

"Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it."

I usually don't agree too much with Luke but on this one I agree. Being a pastor is a blessing but some folks suck all the joy right out of it. I will admit that I am glad that some folks posting in this thread are not members of the church I serve. If so it would come down to either they go or I go. No pastor should have to put up with the idiotic stuff coming from some of the folks posting on this thread. No amount of compensation would be adequate.

 

Why is it that when some folks go looking for a church to attend they go looking for what is wrong? And, if they find something wrong they criticize. Rather that becoming apart of the church and allowing the Holy Spirit to use them to help the church they sit on the back pew and pick and pick and pick. My advise to them is to stay away from any church, far away, until they can get their heart right and start looking for a church with good intentions rather than entering the door with an agenda.

 

Yup, what he said. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

Nailed it. :wavey: :thumbs: :thumbsup:

 

Bingo! But we have ways of dealing with folks like him who sow discord and are busy bodies. It's Biblical. It would be time for him and his to go elsewhere. :thumbs: