Salvation & grape juice

Lot repented of that sin of drunkenness. But there were consequences of that sin... the Moabites and the Ammonites.

Paul recorded that no drunkard will inherit the Kingdom of God. Moses recorded that it only takes one drink to get drunk.

Wine is a mocker and it deceives. Just because one thinks they are not drunk does not mean they are not drunk. They are deceived by the one drink.

 

Urban legend...

 

Reference please? Also, try it yourself and see what you get.

I just searched the works of Josephus. The word juice only occurs twice, and it is in the context of tree sap that is used for ointment.

 

Apparently:

So...

Apparently, even if you don't drink, if you think that NT wine was always wine, then you're blaspheming the Lord, don't want to receive the truth, don't want to receive sound doctrine, are of a hardened heart, ad nauseam.

 

Now that we have all of HBSMN's comments in one post, this thread can be closed...

 

:laugh: Nah, he wants to repeat them at least 20 times.

Yup, it's urban legend. I just searched the works of Josephus for juice, wine, etc. Nothing. Not a hint of any preserved grape juice for any amount of time. I guess it's par for the course to make up facts to support such an unsupportable claim.

 

It's funny, because a site on the net claimed Josephus found fruit 100 years old...and it was as ripe as the day it was plucked! I would say maybe he had a few too many!

 

To be fair, only the majority of the comments came from HBSMN. There were others who made a few of those. I didn't copy the names. Anyone who must know who said what can look through the drinking thread.

But, from HBSMN's latest comments, it's only actually drinking that will render one unsaved; he hasn't mentioned believing that wine in the NT always means "wine".

Michael

 

Apparently you did not search good enough. Josephus records no less than 44 instances of wine in his writings.

In his 'The Jewish Wars' 7.292, we read the following:

 

Wine in the New Testament as well as the Old was either fermented, or non-fermented. Context will show which. Of course many don't care about the context. They just want to disprove the Word of God.

 

Oh, well it's obvious where I went wrong. I searched for anything that seemed like preserved grape juice. When I saw "wine" I mistakenly thought it meant "wine". Silly me.

 

I wish they had shared what kind of magic they used. I'll bet fruit growers of today would really appreciate it. Right now they have to pick fruit while it is unripe just so it won't spoil on the way to the grocery store.

 

If we continue reading The Jewish War, it may shed some light on how the wines and fruits were preserved...

 

The magic was...get this...honey :laugh:

They used the illustration of fruit being preserved in cans filled with "honey like" syrup. I wonder why there are expiration dates on my cans of fruit then

 

Josephus does not record what allowed Herod to store them for so long while keeping their freshness... other than it may be due to being sealed from contaminants.

But the fact remains... storage of such was done. And they were kept fresh.

 

So egyptian mummies that are preserved still rot...but pieces of fuit keep the same freshness and ripeness as the day they were plucked? OOOKKKAAAYYY.....

 

I did not write the 1st century history, webdog. It happened and one from the 1st century recorded it.

Just because you want to deny it happened does not make it fiction. It happened just as Flavius Josephus recorded it.

If it did not happen like Josephus recorded, why is there no other historian from his era that refuted those writings? Surely there would have to be someone who wrote against it from that time.

 

Fine! Then you'll have no problem with my challenge. Harvest some grapes this fall, and using only what NT people had at their disposal to preserve things, serve grape juice at Passover. Let me know how it turns out.

 

LOL. Don't even go there. He's going to throw out the London Baptist Confession of 1689, but treat a fable repeated by Josephus as gospel.