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Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Mar 19, 2006.

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  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    That would be the first time a prophecy was fulfilled before it was given.
     
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    av1611: quote

    'how many souls will I be able to present to The Lord Jesus Christ at the Judgment Seat of Christ?'.

    I think we will stand before God for ourselves and not another. I don't think you will be presenting any souls but your own. Just my belief about the matter. [​IMG]
     
  3. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Remember, 1 Corinthians 15:24-27 tells us that Christ’s rule is temporary; it’s for 1000 years. God’s Kingdom is forever.
     
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Hope of Glory:
    quote

    Remember, 1 Corinthians 15:24-27 tells us that Christ’s rule is temporary; it’s for 1000 years. God’s Kingdom is forever.

    What do you think will happen to Him then? and He already has been our High Priest for over 2000 years.


    Revelation, chapter 3

    " 21": To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 9: And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
    10: And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
    11: Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
    12: And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
    13: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
    14: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
    15: And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
    16: And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
    17: And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
    18: And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
    19: And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
    20: The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
    21: And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
    22: And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it .
    23: And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
    25: And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
    26: And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
    27: And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


    [​IMG]

    [ March 24, 2006, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
     
  5. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    No, as I stated it was from Ezekiel:

    Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
    Eze 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Was Paul in error when applying this to the Corinthians?
     
  6. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    He was prophet, he is high priest, and one day he will be king. This is surrounding the Kingdom. The Bible says very little about what happens after that.
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Apparently some people on this Forum do not understand what Scripture teaches about Jesus Christ and the doctrine of the Blessed Trinity: God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Scripture teaches of Jesus Christ:

    Colossians 2:8-10
    8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I will take a stab at it, ok?

    First;
    It is NOT of paramount importance to this saved saint. What IS of paramount importance is 'how many souls will I be able to present to The Lord Jesus Christ at the Judgment Seat of Christ?'.

    Secondly;
    It does not matter how the folks in the MK are saved. I say this because it also makes no difference how folks before Abraham were saved either. What matters NOW is 'What are/am you/I doing with your/my salvation'?

    I am very disappointed. Why haggle about a non-issue like how are folks saved in the
    Millenium?
    </font>[/QUOTE]If the dispensational doctrine, which I think is false, is to have any validity it should be able to present a doctrine as to how people are saved during this 1000 year period of time. They dreamed it up. They need to dream a little more. Of course those who dreamed it up [Darby/Scofield] are dead, perhaps that is the reason, their dream was interrupted!

    By the way, where did you get the idea that you will present any souls to
    You did not save them did you?
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I believe that you are misinterpreting Scripture. Read Daniel 7:13, 14.

    13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
    14. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
     
  10. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end , upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom , to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever . The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Luke, chapter 17


    "20": And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    "21": Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    Seems to me it is already here!!

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    There are 5 main passages in the New Testament that are used by those that believe that the kingdom of God is spiritual and in the hearts of men rather than a physical, literal, and future kingdom on this earth that shall last “one thousand years.” The passages are: Luke 17:20-21; Romans 14:17; 1Corinthians 4:20; Colossians 1:13; and Revelation 1:9.

    One thing to keep in mind is that these are exceptional passages. The phrase “kingdom of God” appears in 68 verses of the New Testament and the single word “kingdom” appears 158 times in 150 verses. The majority of passages on the kingdom can be easily proven by plain reading to be something that is literal and future and will last “a thousand years” on this earth.

    The first verse that many use to try to perpetuate the fallacy of a spiritualized Kingdom is Luke 17:20-21. Many people, such as amillennialists, point to the questionable translation of the Greek word “entos” which has been translated by the King James as “within you.” They say that the Kingdom of God is only spiritual or is somehow mystically inside a person. However, in this passage, Jesus is responding to the Pharisees not His disciples! Jesus is answering the Pharisees’ question, “When the Kingdom of God should come?” In the next verse, verse 22, it begins, “And he said unto the disciples”. In the same context, he turns and addresses his own disciples in verse 22. The Pharisees were not his disciples! In verses 20 and 21, he’s talking to the Pharisees, and then he turns to talk to his disciples.

    The Pharisees rejected the signs that Jesus had given to prove that he was the Christ. How could God's spiritual kingdom be within them? If the kingdom of God were within anyone spiritually it surely would not have been in the unbelieving Pharisees.

    This verse completely goes against the view that the kingdom of God is within the hearts of people that have accepted Jesus as the Messiah, because the only time in the Scriptures that it is used, it is used in reference to those that had rejected Jesus to be the Christ.

    The English translation “within you” does not make any sense because the Pharisees had rejected Jesus as their Messiah. The 1611 KJV translators were not sure how best to translate this word, so they included a marginal note with the alternate reading, "among you." This is obviously the true meaning of the word in this context. It is translated "among you" or "in your midst" in various other translations such as the NASB, RSV, BBE, NLT, NJB, NET and the Rotherham translation. (This is from the KJV translators' own notes!)

    As far as Daniel 7:13-14 and Isaiah 9:6-7 goes, I would suggest that you read a literal translation of it instead of an interpretation. Both are talking about an age; a limited period of time. (This is also carried over in the LXX; it's an age.)
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Luk 17:20-21 (KJV1611 Edition):

    And when hee was demanded of the Pharises,
    when the kingdome of God should come, hee answered them,
    and said, The kingdome of God commeth
    not with ||obseruation.
    21 Neither shall they say, Loe here,
    or loe there: for behold, the kingdome of God
    is +within you.


    Margin notes:
    !! Or, with outward shew
    + Or, among you


    Such a translator's margin note means that the Greek could
    support either translation. Consider this Saying of
    Jesus supported by this margin note.

    The kingdome of God commeth
    not with outward shew.
    21 Neither shall they say, Loe here,
    or loe there: for behold, the kingdome of God
    is among you.
     
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    But Jesus Himself said it cometh not with observation .

    Luke, chapter 17


    "20": And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    Please consider Heaven has 12 foundations, names written therein are the 12 Apostles of the Lamb. 12 gates, names written therein are the 12 tribes of Israel, God and The Lamb are the Light and Temple of that City.


    Matthew, chapter 5
    "14": Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


    Revelation, chapter 3
    "12": Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    I ask you who is the bride, the Lamb's wife?
     
  15. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    What is the city?
     
  17. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Revelation 21:9-11
    9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
    10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
    11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
     
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    So, it was the believers in Christ that was the city. The Church.
     
  19. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    no, the city is not the church.

    Hebrews 13:14
    14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
     
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Is the Church the bride?

    Revelation, chapter 3
    "12": Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


    Romans, chapter 7

    "4": Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead , that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
     
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