Sara Palin

It depends on what you're looking for in a president. If you're the typical evangelical that views Israel through the lens of 'last day' bible prophecy, and if you consider unconditional support for Israel from the U.S. to be a crucial quality in a candidate, then she's your girl:

“....Palin had one flag in her office beside the US one: Israel's. Remember also her position on the West Bank:

PALIN: I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to be expanded upon, because that population of Israel is, is going to grow. More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead. And I don’t think that the Obama administration has any right to tell Israel that the Jewish settlements cannot expand.

WALTERS: Even if it’s [in] Palestinian areas?

PALIN: I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to be expand.”


Or, if you're a religious pluralist:

“.....We should have added that Bachmann and Perry, along with Sarah, are solidly pro-Israel, and aligned with conservative Christians who embrace the vision of America as a Judeo-Christian nation.” (Benyamin Korn, founder of 'Jewish Americans for Sarah Palin'; it sounds as if he's actually endorsing Bachmann and Perry as much as he is Palin)

Again, it depends on what you're looking for in an administration. If you're the typical evangelical that views Israel through the lens of 'last day' bible prophecy, and if you consider unconditional support for Israel from the U.S. to be a crucial quality in an administration, then she's your girl.

[edit] IMO, Palin as Secretary of State would be a catastrophe.

 

KY, your antisemitism is well noted. The Palestinians have no real claim to the land.

 

Where, exactly, are any anti semitic remarks that I have EVER made? If you cannot produce them, then you have falsely accused me.

This is a very cheap smear tactic on your part.

Says who? Explain that please. [Please do not make comments about antisemitism when I do not see any myself. If you can point some out we can correct it, but I don't have any problems with what is being said here. People don't realize it but there are many Palestianian Israeli citizens living in Israel and on the occupied territory. They simply want their peace and in general don't cause much trouble since they know that 2.75" rockets will rain down on their house if they cause too much trouble; I know that is what they use, we make them and sell them to Israel.

Even a lot of the more liberal Israelis are against these armed attacks. I am not saying that I am against them, but it is not antisemitism to not believe in Israel's armed responses to stick and stones may be over-doing it somewhat. It might suprise you that Israel has a lot of citizens that are athiest and not religious at all and is known by the military as a party country for shore leave. I can attest to this myself from the days before I became a Christian.]

 

RD2, freeatlast is also sinless. Oh yes. In previous posts he claimed that if you are a true Christian you no longer sin. So not only is he right all the time, he's holier than we are as well.

 

I would guess there are less than 10,000 Christians in the U.S. that use a candidate's stance on Israel as their #1 criteria for voting decisions.

 

One of the most demeaning statements I've read around here in a while. Completely misses the point and makes a baseless accusation against KY.

Isarel as a political entity has no meaning in prophecy and has been more than happy to exploit (well intentioned) evangelical theoogy to seize land and property from another people.

What a sad statement to make against someone else who is making a reasonable point.

 

There is no excuse for this kind of personal attack. I have reported your post to the moderator of this thread for action.

 

I wonder if Sarah knows or cares how badly Israeli citizens who are Arab Christians are treated? I wonder how many evangelical/conservative Christians know how badly these folk are treated by Israel?

IMHO the government in Israel cares nothing, has no sympathy for Christians ... but not being stupid they do exploit US Christians and use them for their own purposes.

 

You need to get real:

"When asked, “Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for a candidate whom you perceive as pro-Israel?,” 53 percent say they would be more likely to vote for a candidate they saw as pro-Israel,...."
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/10/real-pro-israel-lobby-is-american.html (thus much of the pandering to Israel from the candidates)

See the entire poll here:

http://www.committeeforisrael.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ECI-National-Poll-October.pdf

 

I think what needs to happen is a two-state solution with a free Israel and a free Palestine living side by side in peace based on mutual respect. However, the dispensationalists don't want that to happen because they think we have to support everything Israel does for Jesus to be able to come back. It's sad that the dispies can't accept the traditional view of Jesus' Second Coming.

 

:thumbsup:

Excerpt from his essay, 'The Second Coming', by Israel Shamir:

“The rise of the Antichrist as the last stage before the Second Coming may be compared with the betrayal and the Crucifixion before the Resurrection. Thus actively aiding and abetting the Antichrist, in order to speed up the Second Coming, is tantamount to playing the role of Judas betraying Christ - if he betrayed Christ in order to quicken the Redemption.......Such an approach is called "antinomian", and Christ foresaw it when he said: "the Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed" (Mat 26:24).......So-called Christian Zionists are antinomians as they side with the Antichrist in order to quicken the Second Coming, but woe to that man who helps Antichrist to destroy the world. Whether they believe in the Second Coming of Christ or not, people who knowingly implement antichristian plans are better called "the Antichrist Zionists". Rise of the Antichrist Zionists is a part of the prophesied Apostasy of the Church. But our feeling towards them are like that towards misled brothers. They were ensnared by their spiritual longing for Christ. We do not mind that they are fundamentalists - we regret that they are not sufficiently fundamentalist.....”


.....and I agree with you on the two state solution.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to call dispensationalists antichrist or apostate. I'd stick with wrong and seriously misguided. I should point out that while we do have a lot of common ground theologically and on the two-state solution, some of your comments about the Jews, in my mind, are way over the top and not reflective of reality.

 

You need to read what I wrote more carefully.
I said:

I would guess there are less than 10,000 Christians in the U.S. that use a candidate's stance on Israel as their #1 criteria for voting decisions.


Where in this poll is support for Israel listed as the #1 criteria for voting for a particular candidate?

I agree that many Christians take into account a candidate's stance on Israel but I would guess that the economy, jobs, health care, education, taxes, etc. would be the priority issues and Israel far down the list of priorities.

 

I never implied #1 criteria for a candidate; but I I guarantee you 53% (thank propaganda like the the 'Left Behind' series (garbage) for that) includes more than 10,000 Christians.

 

I don't agree with Shamir on a lot of things (he's a liberal, socialist, Greek Orthodox Christian), BUT, he's also an Israeli citizen who fought for his country and who converted to Christianity, and who offers some insights into the real world of current day Judaism. He was making a very valid point in this essay.

What, specifically, are the comments in your mind that I have made that "are way over the top and not reflective of reality" about the Jews. I'd really like to know. You've made the accusation, back it up.

 

Well, I did imply it as the #1 priority.

In any event, you're assertion is on shaky ground. Only 50.9% of poll respondents would be more likely to vote for a strongly pro-Israel candidate, compared to 56.3% who identified themselves as evangelical or born again Christians.

From the poll:

Q56. DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF AN EVANGELICAL OR BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN?

TOTAL ANSWERING 583

YES 56.3
NO 38.8
DK/REFUSED 5.0


Q29. WOULD YOU BE MORE LIKELY OR LESS LIKELY TO VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE WHO STRONGLY IDENTIFIES AS PRO-ISRAEL?

Total 1000

MORE LIKELY 50.9
MUCH 25.9
SOMEWHAT 24.9
LESS LIKELY 25.2
SOMEWHAT 16.3
MUCH 8.9
DK/REFUSED 23.9


Furthermore, 48.9% of them were Tea Party sympathizers (Q49). So here you have 49% Tea Partyers, 56% Born Agains, yet 50.9% of these people, basically a flip of the coin, say they would vote for a pro-Israel candidate.

 

Local poll here on the BB:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=67203

 

Has no one noticed that KY has a noticed bias towards the nation of Israel? Obviously I am the only one who saw it that way. I'll take that as me being wrong and I apologize to KY and submit myself to the discipline of the moderator.

 

Those numbers are a bit stronger, but there are less participants and it's an entirely different question being asked.

I do understand that evangelicals typically support Israel, but I stand by my assertion that it is not the overarching reason they use to decide to vote for a candidate for President.

 

some of your comments about the Jews, in my mind, are way over the top and not reflective of reality. posted by Paul3144

Evidently I'm not the only one who has a concern for KY. So, I'll join with Paul3144 and not use the descriptive "antisemitic" but say that his "comments about the Jews, in my mind, are way over the top and not reflective of reality." Again, I apologize for the use of the "antisemitic" descriptive but am not apologetic for being concerned about his wording toward the Nation of Israel.