1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Saved by Grace Alone, Justified by Faith Alone

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Oct 14, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,334
    Likes Received:
    970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Galatians 2:15-16 presents that belief comes before faith, which means there is no requirement to have faith before one can be saved. This passage also shares that we are justified by faith (not saved by faith) alone, apart from works.

    This thread is focused primarily on Galatians 2:15-16 as the core passage upon which other passages support the assertion I have made.

    We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,156
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There can be no salvation or Justification with God without the sinner first "repenting and believing", as Jesus taught in Mark 1:15, and elsewhere in the Bible. Anything else is a false salvation
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    76
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Funny Funny x 2
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    947
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More often I smile at Paul’s seeming underhanded slight. He basically says: We Jews ain’t like the sinners called Gentiles, cause we got the Law on our side that tells us what to do but can’t save us, so we also just like those sinning gentiles have to believe in Christ Jesus.

    I can almost here him think:
    What a bummer.
    Hear I kept the law from my youth and it can’t get me where I desire to be! What a waist of schooling.

    all in jest. :)
     
  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    58
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Austin let me get this straight, you are saying that belief in Christ Jesus because He is the promised Messiah is different than having faith in Christ Jesus because He is the promised Messiah. How so?

    You then say >>that we are justified by faith (not saved by faith) alone,<<. I fully agree that we are not saved by faith, we are saved by God because of our faith. So we are in agreement there. But then you added >> apart from works.<< Are you now putting forward that salvation requires some works on our part? If so then what works would those be? Are you saying that the atonement of Christ Jesus was not sufficient to pay the sin debt of mankind?
     
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    9,318
    Likes Received:
    1,701
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If we believe that we have faith that saves us, then we are saying we are our own Savior!.... Btw... You want works?... How about the works of Christ (alone) that saved EVERY WRETCHED SINNER ON HERE!... 100%... Brother Glen:)

    Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

    2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,334
    Likes Received:
    970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I bolded the statement that is not ever stated in the Bible or even implied.

    "we are saved by God because of our faith."

    Your statement is, in fact, graceless and the equivalent of saying "God only saves those who save themselves."

    Galatians 2:15-16 simply does not support you at all.

    God saves us by grace. This means our salvation is unmerited. Your statement teaches merited salvation.

    Upon standing before God as judge, he will justify us because of the faith he gave us upon saving us by grace alone. Therefore we are not saved by our faith. We are saved by grace alone. Our justification, however, is by faith alone. These two are distinctive. Salvation and justification are different things, yet they both ensure we are adopted children of God.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    58
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you want to believe that God has only picked out a few to be saved and hope that you are one of them so be it. But I will just trust in the finished work of Christ Jesus and place my faith in Him. As I said God saves us because we believe not so that we will believe.

    When Christ Jesus says those that believe are not condemned, in other words saved, then that is good enough for me. Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned..." or how about Eph 2:8 " For by grace you have been saved through faith..."

    Frankly I am not sure what you are trying to prove here? How does my statement = merited salvation? Do you really think that God is saying here that we have to do some kind of work to be saved. Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Notice it is those that believe that do not perish/are saved. So like I have said before I will just stick with the bible and not with some mans theory of salvation.
     
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    947
    Faith:
    Baptist
    May I offer a bit of clarification.

    You both understand that salvation is authored and finished by God through Christ.

    Then the difference comes down to one item.

    from whence is “faith?”

    You are firm in the thinking it is conjures from something innate in all humans.

    Others state that because the Scriptures record there is nothing of worth, value, intellectual capacity, or whatever in the unregenerate, then God must endow those in whom He chooses with perfect faith as part of the new creation, that wars with the old nature compelled in a body of sin.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,334
    Likes Received:
    970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your entire comment is off-topic.

    You wrote: "we are saved by God because of our faith."

    That statement is false. Neither Galatians 2 nor any other place in the Bible teaches what you stated.

    Here is what you say:
    Because of my faith, God saved me.

    Your statement is graceless and pure salvation by works (merit-based).

    The text (Galatians 2) shows we are saved by grace alone and we are justified by faith alone.
     
    #11 AustinC, Oct 14, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,156
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you keep pushing this false teaching :eek:
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    19,909
    Likes Received:
    655
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvinists find their false doctrine by reading into scripture what it does not say.

    "Belief comes before faith?" That is what the OP said! However any one with a rational mind knows belief in Jesus is faith in Jesus.

    Next we were justified by Christ's faithfulness, He ransomed us, and in Him we undergo the washing of regeneration.

    Next the Calvinist proclaimed there is no requirement to have faith before one can be saved. Calvinists rewrite Ephesians 2:8 to say we obtained faith through salvation. Not how it reads. To be saved through or by reason of faith requires faith before being chosen for salvation, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    Lastly the verse says we believed in order to be justified, the exact opposite of the bogus claim.
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,334
    Likes Received:
    970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So Galatians 2:15-16 is false teaching?

    We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

    Tell us why Paul is false teaching.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    947
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Perhaps you are in transference?

    You assign to others what you do?
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,334
    Likes Received:
    970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    By this logic, demons have faith.
    Of course we know that is not true.


    We are justified by faith. The gift which Jesus gave us. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    What is grace? Does grace require from the person something before it is given?

    I'll let the scripture speak for itself.
    Ephesians 2:5,8-9 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    2 Thessalonians 2:11-14 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    The text agrees with me, AustinC.

    Galatians 2:15-16 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

    "Have believed in Christ"
    This is before...
    "in order to be justified by faith in Christ."
    The order:
    Saved by grace
    Believed
    by Faith
    Justified
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    16,242
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Same ol' same ol', brainwashed Reformed types keep yapping faith alone, faith alone, when they cannot produce one, not even one verse that states justification is by faith alone, all the while there IS scripture that clearly states that justification is NOT by faith alone. Now that's some heap big mighty brainwashing!!
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,334
    Likes Received:
    970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Galatians 2:15-16 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    947
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you mean like Galatians 2?
    nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by works of law, except through faith from Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith from Christ, and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law not any flesh will be justified.​
     
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    947
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Shucks, you beat me to the post reply button.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...