Saved? How can we know?

It was after that point that Thomas doubted.

Matt. 7:

21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Well, somebody is going to come up short.

 

The Bible also says some people are going to hell! That is also a promise.

 

Not the ones who have called upon the name of the Lord to be saved...

God did not create Hell for humans made in His image in the first place.

 

Let me tell you a story, my story, or a little bit of it. When I first believed I went to one of those churches where they tell you all you have to do is "pray this prayer" and you will be saved. Then they walk you line by line through this little prayer which generally says how sorry you are for your sins, and that you believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Then they tell you "that's it! You're saved!"

Can someone who has been through such a process really have confidence that they are heaven-bound on that basis? HOW?

 

Then I have to doubt that any one of us has ever been truly sorry for our sins. We can't even imagine the magnitude of what we have done.

 

Well, it only takes God a moment but for me to get into that condition it took me almost 3 years. To each its own. I don't believe in no line either. I believe in one altar and that is at the feet of Jesus.

 

HBSMN;
I saw what you believe, I was referring to the line and what they call the sinner's prayer. Salvation is a individual thing between you and the Lord, and a prayer from the heart, not one "repeat after me" thing. Its kinda like being in the Army and passing through the chow line.

 

"Praying a prayer", "asking Jesus into your heart," "being really sorry," "walking an aisle", etc. are not how the Bible says to get saved, nor what the Bible teaches to base your assurance of salvation on.

They taught you a man made tradition that confounds the very simplicity of the Gospel.

Lacy

 

I agree totally, Lacy. Now, why is that the case?

 

You are quite right that this is no grounds on which to base your confidence in salvation. I would like nothing more than to remove the "sinner's prayer" from the churches. Any real response is individual, an individual response to an individual understanding, revealed to you as an individual, and when it happens, you know it. And it is based on the word of God, not on anything you've said or done.

Liz

 

Are you asking me why you agree? Or is this rhetorical?

I have no idea. I'm still trying to understand your last two or three posts.


I guess I could give you the standard (meaningless) answer that I usually give my wife. "I might just be the smartest male human you have ever met." She thinks it's funny anyway.

Lacy

 

Because scripture states : Whosoever believes in me SHALL NOT be ashamed.

Salvation is not dependant on a prayer, as the prayer is simply the manifestation of what the heart has ALREADY believed. Though some people are not saved by the prayer because THEY HAVE NOT believed with Godly sorry that works repentence.

Do you deny the scriptures that state ...These things were written so you CAN KNOW you are saved...!!!!

Do you deny that Peter, Paul, John, the Apostles, the early, and the present Church KNOWS they HAVE eternal based on the promise of God.

Scripture gives us the evidence where by were look at our lives and SEE the change that has taken place.. Love of God, Love of the brethren, Unity of the Spirit, obedience to the Fathers will and the commands of Christ...

We are either saved or we are not and that is what John speaks to consistantly in his writings. God back and re-read John 3 specifically or 1 John, you can go to Romans 8 or any other number of places in scripture that state with infatic pose a believer can KNOW they are saved.!!

Salvation is based on the believing the truth of who Jesus is and the work he completed on the Cross. Then it is submitting to that truth (humbling ourselves) by recieving that grace God has placed toward you.

Jesus Himself told that have this assurance or guarentee that who ever believes HAS eternal life.
Paul says we have this seal that is to the day of our redeption.
Jesus stated He will NEVER leave us, nor forsake us... We have this assurance. For in understanding God's love it casts out all fear.

Why is it that you can not accept the plain teaching of scripture that has been part of the basic doctrines of the faith since the early church and of Christ Himself even before its inception.

Even the the OT people had full assurance they were the Children of God based upon His word and the promises thereof.

Refer back to my Post (#74) for more verse and 1 John in context of KNOWING you ARE saved.

 

Ok, Bob. Let me be MORE clear...because Peter and 5 other disciples also were still in unbelief along with Thomas. The other 4 disciples came to faith the DAY BEFORE Thomas did.

So, name one person, one instance where after they understood the truth of the Risen Lord and believed that they EVER doubted again, even in the flesh.

 

You keep moving the goal post on me Allan.

I thought when Jesus arose from the grave that the sisters were there the next day and it was eight days later that Thomas saw Him. Do you honestly think it took eight days to spread the word about Jerusalem that Christ had risen. They had to see Him in person before they believed. Looks like the sisters were enlightened before the Apostles. The fact is the Salvation came from Him dying, buried and raising from the dead conquering over death hell and the grave, not carnal knowledge. The fact is Thomas doubted that Jesus arose from the dead, even after being told by the other Apostles who had actually seen him and who brought us the "word", and of which we believe but Thomas did not believe.
You never answered my question;
What do you think of this scripture??

Romans 8:
21: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22: For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23: And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25: But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

 

I don't because many people either don't know how to approach (they have never prayed or been around christian typical beleif) or they are overcome by the holiness of God they fear to approach.

We need to explain what the pray is about. I think if anything we need to help lead them to the throne of God *IF* they have fear and don't know how, BUT we are to let them do the repenting and dealing with God. We simply lead them to THAT place of one on one with God. I do this and usually the only thing I need to pray with them is the coming to, and the "in the name of Jesus, Father - Amen."

Everything inbetween is of their own heart and Gods dealing with them.

 

They ALL doubted except the sisters to whom the witness was revealed.

Then Peter:

He was still in unbelief because he didn't understand what had happened.

 

Thomas would not even believe the other Apostles.

Can you answer this scripture Allan?
Romans 8:
21: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22: For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23: And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25: But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it