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Featured Saved in a Calvinistic Baptist Church

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Jul 16, 2021.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I am a supporter of the bible broadcasting network (BBNRadio.org) and am also supported a niece in going to Liberty University in Lynchburg, VA. I am also very active in the media ministry at work at have shared the gospel with many. I am Pentecostal, but not anti-Baptist. One guy, after reading one of the books I gave him, wanted to get saved, but not in the Pentecostal Holiness church that I attended. He explained to me that he was brought up Baptist and would rather go to a Baptist church.

    A guy I worked with is a Calvinistic Baptist by the name of Ray and I looked him up. Ray said they had a Franklin Graham testimonial film that Sunday night and there I brought my friend. After the film he went tearfully up... But there was no altar! They took him to a room, in which I followed, and then proceeded to talk him out of it! I am like... He has tears running down his cheek! The man is ready to get saved! We then prayed the sinners prayer and my friend got saved.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    So what! You dont need an altar to get saved. Not saying you cant invite people to come forward.
    But if the do not fully understand - I agree with the action the church took.

    Excellent decision. If a person needs to talk to someone to fully understand - how can he properly understand if the church is singing. It is best to go to a separate room -

    Now if a person had been save previously - and they come forward to share his experience - that fine......
     
  3. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Iat my home church they designed the platform end with "prayer rooms" around the perimeter behind the choir loft\baptistry.
     
  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    A Billy Graham crusade:

    1. Song service
    2. Sermon
    3. Altar call

    And the prayer was something as simple as, “Lord Jesus come into my heart.”

     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Where do you see a physical altar in any NT. Church?
     
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  6. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    An altar call is a tradition in some Christian churches in which those who wish to make a new spiritual commitment to Jesus Christ are invited to come forward publicly. It is so named because the supplicants gather at the altar located at the front of the church building. Most altar calls occur at the end of an evangelical address. Altar calls are a recent historic phenomenon beginning in the 1830s in America. During these, people approached the chancel rails, anxious seat, or mourner's bench to pray.[2] One of the most famous 19th century revivalists, Charles Grandison Finney, "popularized the idea of the 'altar call' in order to sign up his converts for the abolition movement."[3] In many Churches of the Wesleyan-Arminian theology, the altar call, in addition to being an invitation for people to experience the New Birth, is also often used to implore believers to experience the second work of grace, known as entire sanctification.[4] Notable examples in history of using altar calls include Billy Sunday and D. L. Moody. - Altar call - Wikipedia
     
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  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    But was there repentance?
     
  8. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

    If Christ is not yet formed we will tell you to come back tomorrow night.... And smile a little as we say it.
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    How do you know your friend “got saved” when he said the “sinners prayer”?

    peace to you
     
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  10. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Acts 2:21

    For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:13
     
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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  12. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Here is a story where it took a while for the petitioner to get through…And starting out Presbyterian ….

    "Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

    George Clark Rankin and myself also moved to kind hearted kinsmen where the religion came into the heart, reporting to the mind what had taken place....
    [​IMG]

    In the course of an hour I was at my uncle's. He was surprised to see me, but gave me a cordial welcome. The first thing he did was to disarm me, and that ended my pistol-toting. I have never had one about my person or home to this good day. And I never will understand just why I had that one. A good dinner refreshed me and I soon unfolded my plans and they were satisfactory to my kind-hearted kinsman. He was in the midst of cotton-picking and that afternoon I went to the field and, with a long sack about my waist, had my first experience in the cottonfield. We then would get ready for the revival occurring that night…

    After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

    At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

    By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

    As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

    Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

    When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.
     
  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And finishing up Methodist… After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

    "My son, do you not love God?"

    "I cannot remember when I did not love him."

    "Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

    "I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

    "Do you accept him as your Savior?"

    "I certainly do, and have always done so."

    "Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

    "No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

    "Do you love everybody?"

    "Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

    "Can you forgive him?"

    "Yes, if he wanted me to."

    "But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

    "Yes, sir; I can do that."

    "Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

    Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

    The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

    That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

    As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

    I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life. - George Clark Rankin
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said “many” will say on the day of judgement “Lord, Lord”. They go on to claim all kinds of good works in the name of Jesus. And yet, they were cast out.

    What happened to them?

    peace to you
     
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  15. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And... George Clark Rankin visits the full revival here in Virginia around 1900... The Bob Jones University would also do a movie on the most famous circuit rider of the time... Robert Sayers Sheffey...
    [​IMG]
    I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. We reached the old parsonage on the pike just out of Wytheville as Rev. B. W. S. Bishop moved out. Charley Bishop was then a little tow-headed boy. He is now the learned Regent of Southwestern University. The parsonage was an old two-and-a-half-story structure with nine rooms and it looked a little like Hawthorne's house with the seven gables.

    Think of taking a young bride to that sort of a mansion! But she was brave and showed no sign of disappointment. That first night we felt like two whortleberries in a Virginia tobacco wagonbed. But in a week or so we were invited out to spend the day with a good family, and when we went back and entered the bedroom was elegantly furnished with everything modern and the parlor was in fine shape. The ladies had been there and done the work. How much does the preacher owe to the good women of the Church! The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

    The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

    One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.
    [​IMG]

    The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.

    He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.

    He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.

    It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.

    At the close of that year in casting up my accounts I found that I had received three hundred and ninety dollars for my year's work, and the most of this had been contributed in everything except money. Well, we kept open house and had a royal time, even if we did not get much ready cash. We lived and had money enough to get a good suit of clothes and to pay our way to conference. What more does a young Methodist preacher need or want? We were satisfied and happy, and these experiences are not to be counted as unimportant assets in the life and work of a Methodist circuit rider.
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    For Salvation... "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." - Romans 10:9

    To continue the walk and to finish well... "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." - Matthew 18:20

    "Where two or three are gathered together." It is important, therefore, that we continue in quality Christian conference from the point of salvation on. For it is in the midst of quality Christian conference that we sense the presence of Christ and his Holy Spirit. From that point on we should have leadership from God himself on how to live and to finish this Christian walk well.
     
  17. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Attended an old fashion Methodist Camp meeting this week where they....

    1. Had wonderful singing
    2. Took time to pray for the sick
    3. Good preaching
    4. Altar service after the sermon

    The Robert Sheffey Methodist Camp Meeting, Giles County, Virginia.

     
  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    @rockytopva :

    "Altar calls"?
    "Camp meetings"?
    "Revivals"?
    "Sinner's prayer"?
    "Mourner's bench"?
    "Getting saved"?
    "Inviting Jesus into my heart"?
    "Church services"?
    "Parsonages"?

    I'm sorry, but I cannot seem to find the things that you've described above, anywhere in the epistles.
     
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  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I don’t doubt the truth of Romans 10:9. I have no problem with anyone praying.

    What I doubt is the ability of one person to look into the heart of another and know for certain they “believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead” and therefore declare them to be saved.

    If he is saved, and I have no reason to doubt it, it was because God Holy Spirit drew him to the Father, convicted him of the truth of Jesus Christ, and he responded with faith.

    Going to the altar, or not, wasn’t the deciding factor. That, supposedly, some “Calvinist” tried to “talk him out of it” wasn’t the deciding factor. You coming along and saying, “repeat after me (insert sinners prayer) now you are saved” wasn’t the deciding factor.

    If he is saved, and I have no reason to doubt it, it is because of God.

    peace to you
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Finneys new measures were a failure.They still are.
     
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