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Saved or Being Saved

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Lukasaurus, Sep 3, 2008.

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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    None of the people in this Topic were saved when Paul wrote those words.

    Individually, I'm as saved as I can get; you (who are saved) are as saved as you can get. Collectively ('we', 'us'), as a group, we ARE BEING SAVED. Even today, not all that will be saved are already saved, they are still lost. If the Lord tarries, more shall be saved.

    I believe the following:


    All valid English Versions
    individually and collectively
    contain and are the inerrant,
    Divinely Preserved
    Written Word of God, the Holy Bible.

     
  2. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    The Greek words are forms of apollumi (Strong's #622) meaning to destroy or perish, and sozo (Strong's #4982) to save or rescue. It easy to confirm that in this verse these two Greek verbs are in the Present Tense (not the Simple Past Tense). A. T. Robertson stated about the later phrase toiv swzomenoiv hmin --
    Sharp contrast to those that are perishing and same construction with the articular participle. No reason for the change of pronouns in English. This present passive participle is again timeless. Salvation is described by Paul as a thing done in the past, "we were saved" (Romans 8:24), as a present state, "ye have been saved" (2:5), as a process, "ye are being saved" (1 Corinthians 15:2), as a future result, "thou shalt be saved" (Romans 10:9 ).​
    The English Present Progressive Tense can be active (verb with -ing ending) or passive (usually "being" plus verb with -ed ending). The Present Perfect Progressive Tense is used to express duration of an action that began in the past, includes the present, and may continue into the future. Jamieson, Fausset, Brown state that --
    them that perish--rather, "them that are perishing," namely, by preferring human "wisdom of words" to the doctrine of the "cross of Christ." It is not the final state that is referred to; but, "them that are in the way of perishing." So also in 2 Corinthians 2:15,16.
    us which are saved--In the Greek the collocation is more modest, "to them that are being saved (that are in the way of salvation) as," that is, to which class we belong.​
    It is possible to interprete Paul as describing two classes (categories) of people in all three of the example verses (notice all plural forms "them", "us", "ye" and "we"): the faithful, and the foolish. His two groups are inclusive of ALL humanity: past, present, and future members.
     
    #22 franklinmonroe, Sep 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2008
  3. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    I heartily agree with this Ed. Although, I would say some versions are better than others. The ESV, NET, HCSB being the better versions, and the KJV, NIV, and ASV being at the bottom and being the less precise.
     
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    "Lads?"
    Sounds like you've been "across the pond" for a long while, now. [FONT=verdana,sans-serif] [/FONT][​IMG][FONT=verdana,sans-serif] [/FONT][​IMG][FONT=verdana,sans-serif] [/FONT]

    Sorry! Just couldn't resist that one.
    [FONT=verdana,sans-serif]
    Ed
    [/FONT]
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Whoops :) Sometimes I forget to speak American here :)
     
  6. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    Wow, it's grown to three pages already. I will read the thread and reply to every post directed towards me when I get back from Auckland on sunday, or monday. I will be busy sunday too :)
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    "Not actually a fully fledged Ruckmanite, but I believe as he does on the KJB, so I may as well put it out there for all to see."

    and "Ruckman Knight"

    Yeah - this should be interesting.

    We need a popcorn eating smilie.
     
  8. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    Well, I changed it, because another brother requested it, and my response to him was probably less gracious than it should have been, but I tried to be friendly :)
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    The topic of this thread is whether "saved' or 'being saved' is a proper translation of the passages in question.

    If we don't get back there I will need to close the thread.
     
  10. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    Sorry. Please don't close it. I can answer the questions, but like I said, I am flying away in little less than 3 hours, and am just biding time at work until the flight. I hope it doesn't get closed before I get back

    Thank you and God bless.
     
  11. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Wrong. I am saved from sin, but I am being saved from the lusts of the flesh as i obey the Spirit.

    I am yet to be as saved as I can get because the flesh is not eradicated.

    But one day I will exit the realm where the flesh is a contradictory influence to my obedience to the Spirit, then I will be as saved as I can get!!!

    There are those who collectively will become part of the Bride, yet they are still to be saved. They cannot be being saved for they are still LOST!

     
  12. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    As far as eternity is concerned, and God is concerned about eternity, I am SAVED!

    As far as my mind can fathom time in its essence I am being saved, but I'll have to stick with God on this one, [personal attack snipped]
     
    #32 Salamander, Sep 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2008
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Whoa, friend. You need to restudy this one. Stephanus is definitely not a translation from the Vulgate. I think you are referring to the few verses Erasmus allegedly couldn't find in his mss, so he did a back translation from the Latin. But the majority of the Stephanus text is still identical to UBS, Nestles, etc. And I have compared all of Stephanus except Revelation to the Robinson-Pierpont Byzantine Textform NT (1st ed.), and they are in close agreement except for some of the usual suspects (1 John 5:7, etc.).

    As for the OP, from the standpoint of the Greek forms I think either translation is possible in each verse.
     
    #33 John of Japan, Sep 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2008
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I changed the title since this is not going to be a fight over the KJV itself, only the interpretation of these verses.
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    [off topic comments deleted]

    As for the "are saved - are being saved" thingie, it's only a matter of English usage, nothing to have a tizzy about.
     
    #35 robycop3, Sep 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2008
  16. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    off topic post deleted
     
    #36 Askjo, Sep 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2008
  17. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    "Are saved" means already.

    "Being saved" means process, not completely saved.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Php 1:6 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you, will performe it vntil the day of Iesus Christ:

    Is 'being confident' a process or an already happened?
    Answer: being confident here by Paul is DONE DID!
     
  19. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    You are trying to confuse the meaning between being confident and being saved. Confident is ADJECTIVE.

    Rest my case.
     
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Truth is a God thing. Both can be right though they differ. Both can be the Words of God. For 'the Word of God' = 'the Words of God' = 'God's message for you/us'.
     
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