Saved or Being Saved

Yes, I had already ruled out the Historic Present.

Perhaps your example is an imperfect one because it does not convince me. I've seen the movies where the castaways hear a plane or boat and exclaim "We're saved!" only to have the prospective rescuers vanish over the horizon. The island survivors are not 'saved' until they have been actually 'saved' (Past Tense).

 

Actually, a participle is a verb form. :smilewinkgrin:

They are as follows:

1Co 1:18-- present passive part.
1Co 15:2-- present passive ind.
2Co 2:15 --present passive part.

 

No problem. The castaways can be on the island seeing the rescue come, on the boat going towards the ship, and on the ship. In each case they can say "We're saved!" referring to the present condition based on an act (future, present or past). And it will make sense. I'd look it up in an English grammar for you, but it's late here and I have to get to bed. Busy day tomorrow.

Oyasumi nasai. (Rest well.) :sleeping_2:

 

Why not, your mommy watching?:laugh:

Reminds me of a relative Scripture when dealing with accusers:

II Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I'm not ashamed that I have the word of God rightly divided and without error.

Ed would like to concoct something that was never present and turn and rend another brother in Christ with his voluptuous use of Scripture. I find no enjoyment of his misuse of it against some one he is commanded to love: it has all there is to do with loving God in whom one hath not seen by loving his brother in whom he hast seen (on the BB anyway).

I am saved as far as sin is concerned and that is eternal. I am being saved from vicious abuse of Scripture by those who act more like they hate anyone who stands on what thus saith the Lord.:godisgood:

 

Sanctification is the setting apart from the worldliness and association with sin.

I'm so sorry you're having these problems lately. My prior experience with you has proven better than this.

I have been set apart to do a specific task in God's Holy Name, that is not salvation per se, but service in the perfect will of God.

Daily I am saved from error of judgement as I hasten to obey the very Spirit which has called me out and unto Himself.

I'll play along;sanctification is a sort of being saved from gross error in judgement that would otherwise prevent me from doing God's will.:godisgood:

 

Nope, it's a position and a position is a place.

If I were to say "I am a saved person" then it would be an adjective, but being saved is positionally a reference to where one stands with God.:wavey:

 

Pass me not O gentle Saviour! Hear my humble cry! While on others Thou art calling, do NOT pass me by!

Those who on Jesus have leaned upon for repose, shall in no doubt be delivered by Him into God's present and perfect Paradise.

They will not see their Rescuer pass them by and leave them deserted.

They rightfully proclaim, "We're SAVED!":godisgood:

 

Amen, Brother Sal -- You can preach that!

But if I'm talking about you and I and the lost folks we are witnessing to - then I shall say 'we are being saved'. Not all of us will be saved, but some of us are already saved and some of the others will be saved - 'we are being saved'.

 

Just shooting from the hip here but I've always thought salvation and sanctification as two separate things. First you are saved by accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life, then you work on becoming sanctified , an on going process.

 

post from the past (spelling not changed):

And all the great & true doctrines dovetail
into the Pretribualtion Rapture.
If i had time to write books, i'd show how
each of the multiple-scripture Doctrines
of the Bible all end in the Pretribulation
Rapture of the born-again church-age elect
saints as the finish of God's plan
for this age.

Take Salvation.
Salvation consits of three parts:
1. justification (past, if you are saved)
2. sanctification (present)
3. glorification (future)

Of course, Jesus is the one who saves.
Jesus justifies, when He forgave your
of your sins when you were first saved.
Jesus sanctifies when He cleans you
daily of your continuing shortcomings.
Jesus glorifies on that day of the
pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection.

 

They're distinct,but not separate.

One doesn't work on becoming sanctified.That is,unless you mean the Eph.2:10 way."Foe we are God's workmanship,created in Christ Jesus to do good works,which God prepared in advance for us to do."

And that verse is related to Phil.1:6 "being confident of this,that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Jesus Christ."

Then,Phil. 2:13 is also related to the preceeding."for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

It looks like God is the one responsible for the good works that are done in a believer's life.

 

Yes, sorry. What I meant was whether the Greek word was being used as a (simple past tense) verb or a (verbal) adjective; which you gracefully answered despite my clumsiness.

So then, the participle is modifying "us" in 1 Cor. 1:18 ("them" in 2 Cor. 2:15). The 'Saved-Us' tends to make me think that this interpretation might include only the professed Christians up until that time. The 'Being-Saved-Us' represents in my mind the collective genuine Christians of all ages (some already in the fold, some being rescued right now, and some soon to be retrieved). I don't see "being saved" as teaching that salvation is a process here, but describing a group that is being gathered over time.

 

That is an interesting and appropriate interpretation that I had never considered before. Thanks!

 

Yep, now that you put it like that!:godisgood:

 

Well, actually it's the Lord working on us.

 

Yeah, but He ain't an "actor"

 

I don't have much time right now (have to go on evangelism), but I'll briefly look at 1 Cor. 1:18. First of all, note that it is a "men...de" comparison. You have to interpret the "saved" in parallel with the "perishing." Now, A. T. Robinson says that it both of the present passive participles here are timeless, and I agree. That is, what is important is the adjectival nature of the participles, not whatever time is involved. He translates as "but unto us which are being saved" and that's fine. Personally, since it is a verbal adjective, I think you could translate as, "but unto us, the saved ones," indicating the condition as opposed to the process. So once again, I believe either translation is okay here. The original is a little ambiguous, but you can't keep the ambiguity in the English, so you have to make an interpretive choice. And the thrust of the verse is not on when and how salvation occurs, but on the preaching of the cross.

 

I'm back from evangelism.

Concerning 1 Cor. 15:2, sozo is a present passive indicative there. Normally the indicative here could be translated either "saved" or "being saved." But since it is in the context of the aorist "you received" in v. 1, I would translate v. 2 as the KJV did, "you are saved" instead of "you are being saved."

In 2 Cor. 2:15 we have another present passive participle. It's actually in a prepositional phrase with the article before the participle, therefore a substantive use of the participle. Therefore, I would translate "those who are saved" (literally "the saved ones") instead of "being saved," but the emphasis is really on the substantive use rather than the verbal.

 

Phil. 2:13 :"for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

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Sal responed to this verse from the NIV with the comment :"Yeah,but He ain't an "actor".

Sal,there is no hint in the NIV rendering that God is a mere actor here.If you want to stick to the realm of the theatrical -- the Lord is the Director.IOW,the Lord is laying out the plans and we as believers are walking according to His directives.

HCSB : For it is God who is working in you [enabling you] both to will and to act for His good pleasure.

NRSV : for it is God who is at work in you,enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

NLTse :For God is working in you,giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

ISV : For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.

 

Thank you, John, for taking the time to explain. I really appreciate it!