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SBC Churches

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by untangled, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I pastored a church and some of the deacons would invite the local Mormon bishop to come and preach at the CBMC and saw nothing wrong with it because they saw him as a Christian. When I and some of the other pastors took a stance against it they didn't like me. But I wasn't about ready to tolerate that kind of evil. One of the deacons and a relative of his were involved at the state level in the SBC and said nothing and did nothing to support me. In fact, eventually he went against me. When the thing came to a head one of the local pastors spoke to them. One of the men from the state did as well. But the local association though they knew told me they could do nothing all in the name of autonomous churches. So not one of them spoke out. Such hypocrisy. That is the very time I decided I had had enough of such hypocrisy. So who did the church hire? A man who had worked for the state SBC. At the church I spoke against the Baptist Foundation of Arizona as being wrong. Tithe money is not to be used for investments but ministry. I spoke to the moderator of the local association and he did not see anything wrong with it. He did not see anything wrong with taking people's money from the church to be used for ministry to be stored up in an investment. But God had the last word when the church lost all its money except three thousand dollars.

    Nobody in the SBC would help me during this time. After it was all over some came to me and told me that if they could help me just let them know. Within no time at all two ministries contacted me to interview with them. They had heard what had happened. One was SBC and the other was another denomination.

    A few years earlier in another church I pastored a woman sent me a letter and asked if we could help. I called her and found out what the problem was. I decided that I would tel the church about it and we decided to do something about it. One of the teachers at the high school was requiring her students to read some books that had profanity in them all in the name of culture. We contacted the school and they did not do anything. So we contacted some other pastors. None of them would get involved. Some even told me I should not get involved and just preach at my own church.

    The SBC makes great claims that they believe the Bible but when push comes to shove many are out to lunch. I had never seen such a bunch of whimps in my life. I attend a Baptist General Conference now and the pastor and church is not at all like that. He takes a stand and the people support him. Some of the SBC pastors are too involved in climbing the ladder. The ladder needs to be destroyed. They need to quit the gossip and exaggeration paper called the Baptist Press and get down to business with God and make disciples. They need to forget the exaggerations and comparisons and fighting and start giving themselves away for the sake of the gospel. My experiences have been they just give lip service to the Bible.

    Not too long ago Paige Patterson at SWBTS had the seminary pay for an addition onto his home the seminary provides. Think of how many missionaries that will provide for who are working hard. Never before has a president of SWBTS ever needed such things. He should have given those books to the library where many students could have used them instead of using monies to pay for the storage of books in his home.

    Not too long ago one of the men I have known for some time was in a position at SWBTS told me that the seminary was not up to the academic standard it was supposed to be. Well they removed him from that position and put him back into teaching and then dissolved the position. Needless to say he was so fed up with their lack of integrity that he left the SBC for good. Once I stood talking to a pastor who is now a prominent trustee at SWBTS who was talking with one of the assistant pastors at his church. They were talking about how they needed to visit a wealthy man who had just visited the church that day. Frankly I was disgusted. He is a man who has spoken about the liberalism and presents himself as conservative.

    When I was pastoring I saw the state SBC invite people to come and work with them. But yet they had not the same ministry successfully in the area where they lived. I saw them invite a lady to come and show others how to do ministry but she could not get anything going where she lived in her own church. I saw them invite another man to do ministry with them yet he had not led anyone in the local church. Doctrinally he was weak. He was a part of the Mormon controversy. In fact he was one of the people who told me he though the Mormon bishop was a Christian.

    The SBC is more political football than getting down to business with God. Too often their holy spirit is in Nashville.

    Some of my friends are still pastors in the SBC and are godly men but are disgusted. At times they often ask me about what can they do. They express to me the trouble the SBC is causing them in their churches when they are trying to do God’s work. They want to do God’s work and are distracted by the political climate and the people in the pews are disturbed by what they read. The SBC looks good on the outside taking a stance against liberalism but inside it is rotting with denominational rigidity and infighting. Even Jimmy Draper said in 20 years they would be non-existent if they did not makes some changes. One of the professors at SWBTS predicted they would be gone in ten years. Henry Blackaby recently gave a sermon stating that most Christians are conservative but live like practicing atheists. He is SBC. The SBC is too worried about image when it needs to get down to business with God on its knees and seek God first.

    Hopefully the new president will help to turn it around. I think he is a great pastor. I am convinced his heart is in the right place. So lets pray for him.
     
  2. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    gb,

    You are right on target. I have dealt here in Arizona with the very things you spoke of. I have now been blackballed. The state has nothing to do with me, I can't remember the last time someone from the state office talked to me. This is strange as I used to be on the Executive Board, but they did not like it when I asked questions rather than just rubber stamping what they put forth. When I asked questions about the Baptist Foundation all I received was scorn. When I stood in the state convention and put forth a recommendation that we condemn the joining of Catholics and Evangelicals Together for Evangelism, I was just as much as told to sit down by the moderator, that it was not important. The final straw was when I sent a letter to every pastor in Arizona about the issue of freemasonry. Well it got back to me that several at the state office were masons and they were not too happy with me.

    Our church is pretty much independent now, although we still send mission support to the Home and Foreign Mission Boards. Something has got to change, but as long as they exclude voices that will cause them to look at themselves and what the convention is doing, nothing will happen.

    Hang in there brother and keep preaching Jesus. In the end He does not care if we are or are not involved with the SBC.

    Bro Tony
     
  3. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    Wow...that's horrible, guys. It's a shame that a fight that began over the Word of God and excising true theological liberalism has now turned into a system of nepotism and political intrigue more in the name of the denomination and the influence that the largest churches wield. Ironically, the leadership has begun to do the same things they said the former leadership did, just minus the disregard for evangelical orthodoxy. It just goes to show that you can know the Word of God and tow the theological line, but still be ungodly in practice.
     
  4. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Great statement and insight, Gene. May I use this thought and statement?

    Bro Tony
     
  5. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    You certainly, may Bro. Tony. I'm reading through The Practice of Godliness right now in my daily Bible Study/quiet time, and that sentiment comes almost verbatim from that book. Jerry Bridges (no relation :D ) is very correct. He talks about the way too many Christians forget that pursuing holiness and practicing godliness are hand in hand. We can do the negative (putting off sinful habits and attitudes or wrong beliefs) and still forget to do the positive (put on the fruit of the Spirit). We think that if we put off the bad, the good will just come along on its own, when, in fact, we forget that sanctification is COOPERATIVE, and we have to cooperate with God with regard to developing godliness in our lives. I see that in the SBC leadership. They fought the war and won, but didn't win the peace, so to speak. They amputated the offending limbs but forgot to replace them with the right prosthetics
     
  6. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Thanks Gene,

    I believe I will get a copy of that book. Do you think it would be a good subject and is the book written for a three day men's retreat? It really sounds like something that the men in our church need to look at.

    Bro Tony
     
  7. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    Yes! I certainly do. I actually bought my copy from CBD on sale. It comes with The Pursuit of Holiness and the study guide for PoH, but the study guide for POG isn't included. I am actually writing my own Bible study to go along with it. I was thinking just the other day that this would be an excellent book for just such a retreat. If you could work Knowing God by J.I. Packer into it or "for further study," it'd be great too. I'm going through it alongside, just for a handy dandy refresh on Theology Proper as I go along...but KG isn't all theory and no practice, Packer's intent with KG was to write the book for the person that wishes to adjust his life to the Truth of Who God is. His thesis is also, "It's possible to know about God and be a Christian, but not know Him intimately, and thus be ungodly out of plain ignorance."

    Basically the PoG is written with the first two or three chapters focused on the "Why do this, overview, etc." items, then the rest of the book devotes an entire chapter each to each of the fruits of the spirit. For example, there's a chapter apiece for humility, contentment, thankfulness, joy, holiness, and so on. The last chapter is, of course, love. You could hit the intro chapters on the first night of the retreat (assuming daytime would be travel time if you travel) and then carve up each of the remaining chapters however you want. The book is very easy to read.

    There is a study guide available from NavPress. I don't have it, not because it's bad; it just didn't come with the book itself and I thought I'd just forge ahead anyway; plus the local Christian bookstores here didn't have it in stock, and I'm not patient enough to wait for it to come in the mail. (Yeah, I know, patience, what irony LOL). You could use that, or, if you want, I'll be happy to send you my own study guide that I'm putting together each day. I start out with the same first question: Task: What are the main points of the text. Note all Scriptures as appropriate. Then I follow up with "Construct your own definition of joy," for example. "What is the purpose of joy?" According to John 10:10, why did Jesus come? According to the text what are the stumbling blocks to joy in our lives? Be sure to summarize and associate the corresponding Scriptures for each question.

    It's basic, but I'm finding that the study guides I have done for myself take about half and hour to forty-five minutes for each chapter, with about fifteen minutes to read through each chapter. I make notes for the first activity as I read. Then I develop the guide from the notes.

    At the rate I'm going, I should be done by the end of next week or sometime during the following week. I'll be happy to email you the guides I do (less my answers of course) each day if you want.
    Just let me know!


    PoG costs $9.99 / each at CBD ( www.christianbook.com )

    The Study Guide is $4.99

    The combination book and guide is $13.99
     
  8. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Gene,

    Thank you for your indepth response. We are having a men's retreat in January and I have been praying for direction concerning what to share with the men of our church. This sounds great and I would really appreciate you emailing the guides. My email is on my profile page and I will get the book and begin reading. Again thanks and I look forward hearing from you. God Bless.

    Bro Tony
     
  9. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    No problem.

    I'll start typing up my guides for you tomorrow. (I just got in for the night here), so expect the first batch tomorrow. I'll send them every few days as attachments done in Wordpad as .rtf files. (You can open them with Wordpad in Microsoft or the corresponding Open Office program). I'll run them as one big file for each email I send to you and you can format them appropriately using plain old copy/cut and paste in case you want to group sections together. Feel free to alter them in any way you see fit as unique to the needs of your retreat.
     
  10. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    [​IMG] thanks very much brother.

    Bro Tony
     
  11. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    You've got mail!
     
  12. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    got it! Thanks
     
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