SBC Minimum Education for Pastors

DD

I'm sorry if I acted wrongly to your initial post.

I took your logic to be:

If seminary should be required to minister, the apostles would have gone...

they did not...

so, seminary should not be required.

I thought/think that to be a fallacious argument. I'm hopeful that you not advance it.

I thought that logic faulty because we are not apostles!

I can sympathasize with you on two things :age and cost. When I began the MDiv work I was 50. I really did not wish to be a pastor. I wanted to learn so that I might teach. I was after the ThM and the MDiv (in my case, equivalency) was a requisite to beginning ThM study. I finished that at 54. Of course that training was expensive , so my family went without other things!! We had the essentials, but I did other jobs and we economized so that I could get that education. I taught public school fulltime all through my seminary work.

After that I finished the ThD with a foreign school of lower tuition than USA schools one month before my 65th birthday, and with the doc I began a new ministry of teaching in a seminary. So I understand "age."

[You DO know that Distance ed theological degrees are available through accredited foreign schools for about $3000...right?]

Still I wonder about three issues in your case:

First, I wonder why age is such a barrier for you because I thought that some schools allowed older students even without undergrad degrees to enter MDiv studies. Our school (TRACS accredited) does. I understood up to 10% ,with some accreditors, of a student population could fit that category.

Second, I am hoping that you are finding places to actively minister in your present educational status under the supervision of a church or pastor..or even without it. Before I finished Bible College, I went with , or without at times, the supervision of a pastor, preaching in rescue missions, prisons, and on street corners in downtown San Diego. I never have been ordained, but I have preached and taught in many churches and interim pastored in two.

I wonder if it is in your denomination that one's calling is evident to more persons than the one who feels called? In some denominations a local church seeing a gifted person will license that person to preach or teach. If a local pastor in your social circle sees your calling might he not give you traing and opportunities to serve?

If you just must leave your denomination to find such opportunities, I'd do that!

Third, I have little to contribute to the discussion of the financial cost of seminary. The school I am with charges $150 per quarter unit (I think). As most classes are four units , each course costs $600. Indeed to me that is a lot. But I know facilities, faculty, and staff are expensive.

Yet I wish that somehow ministerial training could be free:

I entertain the whim that a bunch of retired old goats like me who are content to wear clothing from Goodwill and forego vacations in Bermuda and live in inexpensive homes, and drive 22 year old cars, could get together a school taught by academically qualified (ie, usually an accredited doc in the area of instruction) retirees who are happy to live on pensions or Social Security and to teach only out of love and the joy of doing it and not out of a need to get money for teaching.

But at the same time why should I suppose that I should pay , dearly, the electrician or plumber or school teacher or politician but not pay he/she who teaches in seminary?

Why should the ox be muzzled?

On the other hand, where are the tentmakers who teach and do a secular job too so as not to burden God's people?

Will the readers of this thread not pray with me for DD and all who struggle to respond to God's call?

 

Deacon

I pray that I am not misunderstanding you.

Do you have college from 26 years ago? And do you hve 64 hours with a pastoral diploma recently?

How many total hours?

 

No friend, I have about 64 hours of current seminary schooling. I started attending seminary extension classes in my Baptist Association. I have 21 or 22 classes that carry 3 hours of college credit. After 16 classes, or 48 hours of college credit, I was awarded a Pastorial Diploma in 2004.

Here in the Piedmont of N.C., older students at such colleges as Gardner-Webb are not common. And I don't want to have to take the new SAT's in order to enter the college.

Let me say this, my church has been very supportive of me. I was licensed to preach in 2003 if I remember correctly. I occasionally preach in church, usually on a Wednesday night. I have been the Brotherhood Dir. And have served as Adult Sunday school teacher, and as Sunday School Dir. I have served 4 years as a Deacon in the church, with 2 of those years as Chairman of the Deacons. I have my resume on file in the Association with my qualifications. Yet because I don't have a degree from somewhere like Southeastern, I'm not qualified. Go figure.

Let me say this, I could never turn from being a Baptist. I was offered a pastoriate once. And I turned it down. It carried a big salary also. But it's not about money. I refuse to reject my Baptist values. The denomination that offered the job was Methodist. I do not agree with John Wesly's teachings, therefore I could not be Methodist. I will not leave the Baptist faith!

So what to do? I'm just gonna sit and minister to people on-line who are new to the faith. But not on this forum. Because I'm Calvinist in nature, I'm under constant attack. I could get this anywhere.

i do know this, the greatest work I can do for the Lord is to continue to be faithful in my time, talents, and tithes in my church until the time God reveals otherwise.

 

Friend,

Sorry about the misunderstanding - I tho't you had life experience based credits that you might be able to use to buy your degree from someplace like Excelsior . . .

I am surprised that the lack of a degree that is holding you back.

Calvinistic doctrine can sometimes be overwhelming for other Baptists if it is held to tightly. I regret your feeling attacked, although I know that saying I am not a Calvinist has led to personal attacks as well. It has been my personal experience, here in Texas, that pastoral search committees want a pastor of similar Baptistic ('calvinistic') leaning, because they do not want the pastor to try to change the theology of people in the church from their already established view of Baptist doctrine.

I really do not know what you could do about that. When preaching, I am able to comfort anyone on the Baptist spectrum, and I just do not know how to suggest you go forward.

 

please note that there are two Excelsiors --

Excelsior University which looks bogus

Excelsior College which is accredited by MSACS and has a strong distance learning program. https://www.excelsior.edu/portal/page?_pageid=57,42368&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

 

Well, sounds like you are taking classes there?

 

Actually, I'm not. I'm going to East Carolina and working on my masters, but I am very interested in Distance learning as a whole and try to keep abreast of the real and the mills!

I'm so interested in DL that I think you could call it a hobby :tongue3:

 

Do you see any PhD's using DL as the transmission mode?

 

I'm not sure what you are saying with "transmission mode" -- method of communication, method to get their degrees? I intend to get mine via DL after I finish this program.

 

What schools (and programs) are doing doctoral work by DL?

 

Ah! When you said PhDs -- I was thinking people

There are quite a few schools & programs. I'll get my ducks in a row and post back with a sampling.

 

For PhD programs here are some of the biggies leading the pack. These are accredited and most, if not all, are for-profit universities:

University of Phoenix: PhD in Business, PhD in Health Mgmt; PhD in Education, Curriculum and Instruction, Early Childhood Ed, Education Administration, Elementary Ed, ESL/Bilingual/TESOL, Higher Ed, Reading & Literacy Education, Secondary Ed, Special Ed


Capella: PhD in Business, Management, Organizational Leadership; PhD in Counseling, Child Psychology, Counseling; PhD in Education, Education Administration, Elementary Ed, Higher Ed, Reading & Literacy Education, Secondary Ed; Healthcare Mgmt (PhD)


Walden: PhD in Counseling, Child Psychology, Counseling; PhD in Education, Early Childhood Ed, Education Administration, Elementary Ed, Higher Ed, Instructional Technology, Library & Media Technology, Reading & Literacy Education, Secondary Ed, Special Ed

Touro International: PhD business administration, health administration, education

AIU -- I haven't heard anything good about them, but they do over an array of programs and are accredited.

If you contact one of these schools, know that you are likely to get the old hard-sell.

There are lots of gems out there when you start to search and know a field and an area:

ECU has a phd program in Technical Managment http://www.ecu.edu/gradschool/results.cfm?id=104

Texas Tech has an online PhD in Tech & Prof Communications (that's what I'm looking at) http://www.english.ttu.edu/tc/OnlinePhD/

Northcentral has online PhD programs in business, psychology, education.
http://www.ncu.edu I might should have put them above, but they seem in a different class to me.

The University of Nebraska has one online PhD in education. Pepperdine has one in education (maybe more, I haven't checked them out in a while)

If you want to email me, I'll share the names of the DL forums I visit.

Dr. Grover could chime in here too. He knows tons about the religious DL institutions.

 

Never ever did I think of becoming a raider!

Think I will see you there - it is there, commute back to A&M, UTA, or TWU . . .

But, an online without an MA in English requirement! Now that is like cooking cheesy ramen on sterno.


SWEEETT!

And I don't have to pay the high cost of higher ed!

SWEEEEEETT!

 

Unbelievably AWSOME!!!

UTA wanted almost a master's in english . . .

SWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

45 hours?

And I gotta be able to show 2 years of professional rhetorical skill?

And they will try to give me 9 hours credit? That is 36 to PhD.

And I get to write a dissertation! 10 classes to PhD.

Forget sterno - Top the tanks with avgas . . . yell 'clear', contact, test the brakes! Wheels up! I wonder if they would care if I landed a stetson on the front lawn?



And I love Hazelwood . . .

 

One thing about the links, none of the schools are acredited with the SBC.

I'm looking for religious degrees, not anything else.

 

Dean -- the SBC doesn't accredit schools. They sponsor them. And El Guero's questions didn't ask for religious schools.

Let's try to get Nord and Bill Grover on this thread and get their take on distance religious schools.

Have you checked out the extension courses.

Have you checked with Liberty. They are very liberal in what they'll take and have associates, bachelors, masters, doctorates all in their DL program. And they are regionally accredited.

Luther Rice is TRACS accredited.

Piedmont Baptist here in Winston is TRACS accredited and they now have a DL program.

 

Dean

If they have to be SBC - you are gonna have to move - there are only 5 or 6 - unless you go to canada.

Since you go to one of their sattelite campuses, they should have told you that you would be required to move.

 

I should claify my statements. I'm not interested in other degrees such as an Associates in Arts. No, what I'm after is a degree in religious studies such as the ones offered at Gardner-Webb.

Yes I have looked at extension classes. In fact, thats where I earned my Pastoral Diploma. From the Gaston Baptist Association, Seminary Extension classes. And yes, I'm also aware that Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary school has an extension campus in Charlotte N.C. at Hickory Grove Baptist Church.

See, thats the thing about here in south central piedmont area. Unless your degree comes from Fruitland, or Southeastern, or Gardner-Webb, some SBC acredited school, then the churches here don't consider you qualified.

But I'm resolved not to worry about that anymore. When and if the Lord decides to move and open a position as a Pastor for me, then I'll follow His lead. Until then, I'll just continue to serve Him as a Deacon in my church and in any other capacity He sees fit to place me in.

 

Deacon

The Department of Education does not consider the SBC to be an accrediting agency.

SBC seminaries are accredited by ATS - which is recognized. I have no idea what a gardner-webb is accredited by. It is not an SBC seminary. I would assume it is accredited by one of the regional college accrediting agencies.

Take care.

 

I believe Gardner-Webb's Divinity school is ATS, also, but that only matters for graduate religious degrees.