SBC president has a female minister on staff.

I'd say we don't have the right to make another church do anything, but we are free to state our opinions.

Otherwise we are unable to criticize a "church" who ordains homosexuals and preaches that all men are saved regardless of belief.

 

Okay, I understand your confusion.

The BGCT (Baptist General Convention of Texas) is a Baptist Convention that freely associates with the SBC, the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the Baptist World Alliance and other organizations. Like most state Baptist conventions, the BGCT is not formally tied to the SBC, nor is controlled by the SBC. The BGCT does not endorse the 2000 BF&M (although it does endorse the 1963 BF&M) and has had quite a few differences with the recent leadership of the SBC.

There is a group in Texas that broke away from the BGCT a few years back (I happened to be present when they staged their walkout of the convention meeting in Houston when they didn’t get their way) that call themselves the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. They are explicitly affiliated with the SBC.

No problem!

 

I would not call that the church.

 

So you deny the autonomy of the local church?

 

I live about 3-4 minutes from his church, but thankfully, I'm not naive enough to attend there.

 

What does this kind of comment add to a discussion? Seriously.

Dr. Page is a fine Pastor and tremendous Christian leader who has a growing church that is reaching thousands for Christ. Comments like yours only seek to show how limited your perspective is and add anything to a discussion.

If you have problems with his particular brand of ecclesiology then don't go there. In this kind of a forum try to think of something substantive to contribute or don't contribute at all.

 

1. I continue to find myself agreeing with you.

2. The burden of proof must be on dissenters. Why do you disapprove?

 

I drove by their church about every day for months when I used to work at another job.

Here is one main reason,

-The church was doing a whole series on Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life"

Thankfully, many are aware of Warren's theological problems,
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/review-rickwarren-purposedriven.html

There are other reasons, certain quotes he has said in past issues of the "Baptist Courier" (which I've been getting for the past 4-5 years, for free, surprisingly), but I don't really need any other issue than the issue regarding Rick Warren.

I'm not trying to introduce a red herring to get people concentrated on Warren, but, I'll just assume it's almost axiomatic that Warren's "Christian life" isn't that Christian life preached by Spurgeon, Whitefield, and other preachers who knew God.

 

Some of these titles are misleading. If she's functioning as an elder (which the BFM does not endorse), then I have a problem. However, a lot of these positions are hand-holders. Dr. Page has stated he doesn't believe in women elders.

 

Excellent point -- Could it be that sometimes we make more out of something than it really is because we don't understand what it really is to begin with?

 

1. Don't our women serve all the time?

2. Phoebe was a deaconess (diakonos) in the true sense of the word (Rom 16:1).

3. Aren't our sisters serving and leading in worship when they give their solos in worship?

4. Aren't our sisters serving when they keep the buildings clean and prepare the communion?

5. In an unrestricted sense of the word our sisters are deaconesses/ministers/servants. They are all one word in the Greek. There was not a word for men and then another for women.

 

When should woman lead a service?

If a church needs a woman to lead somewhere in the service, it has issues (unless it's working with the children, which what the Lord gave them to do).

 

A great point to be sure. Let us not forget that John addressed one of his letter (2 John) to the "Elect lady" who was a leader in her church.

Also, another equally valid point is that the term diakonos is a gender transitive word in the Greek. That means it can accept both masculine and feminie genders...something to think about.

I'm not advocating female senior pastors, but I will certainly allow for women to serve in many ministry areas.

Thanks for the kind words TCGreek!

 

TCGreek, Romans 16:1, the word just means servant, no need for eisegesis here.

 

Your gender transitive argument props itself up on the assumption that diakonos means deacon.

The ladies in my church take care of the nursery, prepare food for fellowships, etc. but that doesn't mean they should teach or lead men in any form of worship whatsoever.

 

1. Thanks, neither am I advocating the same. But we need to be sensitive to what the Scriptures really say through words as controlled by their contexts.

2. Yes, I will have to agree with the "Elect Lady" as well. Neither should we slight Paul's referece to Euodia and Syntyche.

 

1. I will encourage you to explore the usage diakonos before accusing anyone of eisegesis.

2. I really wish not to engage in any unnecessary discussion.

 

Ok, sure thing.

Also, as soon as a "deaconess" can be the "husband of one wife," then perhaps a deaconess is OK.

KJV Matthew 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
KJV Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV Matthew 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
KJV Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
KJV Mark 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
KJV John 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
KJV John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
KJV Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
KJV Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
KJV Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
KJV 1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
KJV 2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
KJV 2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
KJV 2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
KJV Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
KJV Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
KJV Ephesians 6:21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
KJV Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
KJV Colossians 1:7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
KJV Colossians 4:7 All my state shall Tychicus declare unto you, who is a beloved brother, and a faithful minister and fellowservant in the Lord:
KJV 1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
KJV 1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
KJV 1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

 

Pure speculation with no facts to back it up. Just what seminary would meet your standards? The Methodists have a saying "open minds, open hearts, and open doors." Sometimes it seems there are those who want to be different and say "closed minds, closed hearts, and guarded doors." More exclusionary rules. One of these days we are going to exclude ourselves out of existence.