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School of Higher criticism, how smart were these guys anyhow?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Plain Old Bill, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    OK, so God could inspire to us unnamed authors of scripture in every place but the Penteteuch?

    I think we are closer then we think in this. I guess I am open to the possiblity, while still believing in the inspiration of scripture, you are seemingly not, while still believing in the inspiration of scripture.
     
  2. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    No, I am open to the possibility, I guess. What I am not open to is that words attributed to Moses are not really from or by him. Why is that so hard to understand? As I've already siad, at least some 60 times in the NT, alone, words of the Torah are attributed either directly or indirectly to Moses. So if those words in those 60 citations are accepted as those of Moses, I guess something else not attributed or quoted as such are permissible. But it does seem a little strange that there is no textual evidence, no 'historical evidence' nor any Hebrew tradition anywhere of a "partial" Torah, or these so-called redactors, don't you think?

    Oh I forgot. Basically, before the last century and a half and the so-called "higher critics", that is. I suggest that individuals such as Warfield, Allis, Wilson, Manley, Hodge, Unger, et. al. were at least somewhat knowledgable of the OT, and far more knowledgable than many of us, and certainly as refers to me.

    Ed
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I didn't question your belief in Scripture. I'm sure you believe in Scripture in your own way. I simply reacted to your statement to the effect that we didn't need the Bible for guidance in every thing nowadays. Since you assure us that you believe in inspiration (you don't say what theory), why in the world would you not want to follow the Word of God in every facet of your life? We Baptists are known for that little item.
    Evidence of stylistic difference is not at all evidence of more than one writer. When I wrote my first book, the first chapter was narrative, and the other chapters were didactic, with poems sprinkled throughout one chapter. If a rookie author such as I was could do that, why could not a brilliant man like Moses, trained in all the wisdom of Egypt? I'm sure a quick look through my library would reveal many books with stylistic differences in them.
    Hah! And you were bothered that I asked if you believe in prophecy after you racheted up the rhetoric considerably by called Ed's theory (which neither he nor I accept, it was simply a possible theory) the craziest thing you'd ever heard.

    For the record, I believe in verbal-plenary inspiration. I also believe that theopneustos (2 Tim. 3:16) guarantees inerrancy in the originals. What version of inspiration do you believe?

    God could inspire others, of course He could. However, He would never inspire errors. Therefore, Moses wrote the 5 books of Moses as the NT authors affirm, and Isaiah wrote all of Isaiah as the NT authors affirm. And what am I afraid of? Absolutely nothing theologically, and very little humanly. God is my strength. "Of whom then shall I be afraid?" :saint:
     
  4. Timsings

    Timsings Member
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    This may be off-thread, but I think it is a warranted question given the direction this thread has taken.

    Can Scripture become the object of idolatry? If so, at what point does our love for and attachment to it cross the line?

    Tim Reynolds
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    There are several Greek words translated "idolatry" in the NT. The one used most often is proskunew, almost always meaning to physically bow down. The next most often used word is latreuw, meaning usually to serve. No one on this thread has advocated serving the Bible or bowing down to it. Therefore your post is most definitely off-thread and irrelevant.

    I have often seen idolatry in the raw here in Japan. I have seen children bow and pray to a jizo, a child Buddha. I have seen people bow and pray and offer items to their ancestors at their kamidana "god shelf." I have witnessed to a woman who had made her dead father her "god." I have seen people cleanse their hands with "holy water" and then bow and pray to the 60 foot Buddha at Kamakura City, only a half hour from where we lived in Yokohama. So don't try to say that believing in a verbal-plenary inspired, inerrant Scripture is idolatry. The idea is preposterous and shows a sad misunderstanding of what idolatry really is.

    John Himes
    Asahikawa, Japan
     
  6. Timsings

    Timsings Member
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    John, you're reading too much into my post. I simply asked a question in response to the intensity of some of the posts I have read in this thread. I haven't mentioned any particular view of Scriptural inspiration or expressed any opinion about any particular view of Scriptural inspiration. And, I haven't made any specific allegations abot any members of this forum.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Okay, Tim. No hard feelings. I had heard this charge before in attacking the position I hold on inspiration, and I assumed you were insinuating. Sorry.

    God bless.

    John
     
  8. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    I didn't question your belief in Scripture. I'm sure you believe in Scripture in your own way. I simply reacted to your statement to the effect that we didn't need the Bible for guidance in every thing nowadays. Since you assure us that you believe in inspiration (you don't say what theory), why in the world would you not want to follow the Word of God in every facet of your life? We Baptists are known for that little item.

    I don't ever remember saying anything to the effect that we don't need the for guidance, again you are reading too much into my post(s) if this what you think I wrote. I absolutely what you to follow the Bible in every facet of your life. I am sorry if something I wrote lead you to believe otherwise.

    As to the theory of inspiration - I hold to the dynamic theory of inspiration. Does not insist on direct verbal inspiration of each and every word of scripture. Though I would have to say not one theory can fully explain all that is Gods word.
     
  9. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    We have been doing good work. I wonder if we have'nt over looked the fact that the school of higher criticism threw out all of the miracles in the Bible as part of thier literarrary form criticism?:godisgood:
     
  10. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    I guess that would depend on the individual critic. There are not many who overall within the pantheon that is Christianity that hold to what is considered a conservative view point concerning scripture, so I would submit that it isn't just the higher critics that are "throwing out" the miracles. Fortunately, faith in Jesus is the standard and not faith in the Bible
     
  11. Timsings

    Timsings Member
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    Thanks, John. God's blessings on you, too.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Forgive me. I missed and falsely accused you. It was actually Timsings who said, "I am always wary of too much reliance on Scripture for direction or instruction."
     
  13. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    I guess I am just to simple minded. The Bible either is God's Word or it is'nt. If the Bible is God's Word then we should believe what it says ,since we know that God would not lie.:godisgood:
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The problem is that many non-Christians hear about the seemingly contradictions without the truth then they go on believing the same lie.
     
  15. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    You are right but this points to the need for all Christians to have a good base in apolog etics and the clergy to have a formidable base in apologetics.:godisgood:
     
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