Scripture and Tradition

2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The Apostle Paul is not speaking of man-made "traditions" ... he is speaking of the GOSPEL, the TRUTH which he had taught through his epistle or through his spoken teaching of the Gospel. Take note: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 begins with the word "Therefore"...meaning "for this reason/because of this". Therefore, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 needs to be taken into context with the verses which precede it...not isolated and interpreted "out of context" to mean the uninspired, man-made "traditions" of the ECF (Early Church Fathers).

 

Paul tells us that IF NT church leaders – sanctioned and blessed by the church… or even an Angel from heaven itself should teach a doctrine contrary to what has been given to us in scripture – they are to be “accursed”

Gal 1
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, [b]for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another;[/b] only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you [b]a gospel contrary[/b] to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Christ tells us that we can not simply trust the magesterium of the church EVEN if it is the one true nation-church started by God at Sinai. Rather ALL must be judged “sola scriptura” and if their tradition violates scripture (yes even OT scripture friends) it is to be dismissed!

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS[/b], BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT [b]IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''[/b]
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.[/b]
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER[/b]'; and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''


The author of Acts shows by divine inspiration that the NT saints were blessed by God for judging oral teaching “sola scriptura”

Acts 17
10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.


Question: Are Christians today willing to follow the inspired Infallible Word of God and TEST those teachings by GOD's WORD to "SEE if those things are SO" as the Acts 17:11 text so explicitly says?

Acts 17
10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.

 

Question: Has God made sufficient provision for us to trust the Holy Spirit and scripture to instruct us?


1John 2

1John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things[/b], and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

John 16
12 ""I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 ""But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 ""He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "" All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.[/b]

Heb 8
8 For finding fault with them, He says, "" BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10 "" FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: [b]I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD[/b], AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
11 "" AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN, AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, "KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME[/b], FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

John 16 claims the INFALLIBLE ALMIGHT God - the HOLY Spirit "will guide YOU into ALL truth" the average non-RC is not about to substitute the fallacy riddled RC magesterium in place of the personal Holy Spirit - member of the Trinity. Christ declared it was the role of the Holy Spirit to GUIDE us into ALL TRUTH for He is the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Even a chapter that SHOULD be memorized by every RC - JOHN ^ - states clearly "YOU ARE ALL TAUGHT of God. EVERY one who has heard and learned from the Father comes TO ME. Of course it is well understood that going DIRECTLY to members of the TRINITY is anathema to the RC magesterium and is the "foolish" thing that is done by non-RCs - but that's what we do in response to texts above.

 

No. He isn't! Look, the verse reads as follows: stand firm and to hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us (New American Standard Bible) .

Tradition, according to the dicitionary is: the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, esp. by word of mouth or by practice; a long-established or inherited way of thinking or actiNG.

Given that, how can you be right and I be wrong? What makes YOU more right than me?

There are 2 other Bible verses FOR tradition:

2 Thess. 3:6, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us."

1 Cor. 11:2, "Now I praise you because you remember me in everything, and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you."

Please explain these verses as how YOU see them if you DON'T see them FOR tradition in terms what what RCC and other liturgically based religions do? Then, please tell me why you're right and why no one else can be right.

 

There's NOTHING wrong with man-made traditions that are Christ-centered. They merely help someone grow closer to God.

Traditions DON'T take away from God. If you believe it does then you're insecure about your beliefs and faith. You should only worry about your salvation and not other people's.

If you don't want to bring traditions into your world of Christian worship, fine. But please don't ruin it for those who do.

IMHO, you're making a BIG issue out of this when you don't have to. You people are like the Pharoisees - self-centered and overbearing.

You should be loving, considerate, and tolerant. Instead, you follow the Bible like it's everything, and, as I said, have become like the Pharoisees!

It's sad, but you're ver closed-minded and not open to civil discussion so there's no reasoning with you.

 

You can't rely on the Bible alone for your only source of information. It's like someone trying to rely solely on ONE book to make an argument for a Master's or Doctoral thesis or dissertation.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say WORD FOR WORD that the Bible or Scripture is the only source of information for Christians.

While I don't dispute the fact it says "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God and profitable for doctrine" in the Bible, that one little verse doesn't give one the right to abuse Scripture by saying "Sola scriptura".

Saying "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God and profitable for doctrine" is MUCH DIFFERENT than saying the Bible is the sole authority.

 

In this post I provde 3 cases where NT saints - religious leaders -- the magesterium of the church itself is held accountable by individuals using a "sola scriptura" model.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1152362&postcount=82

Should we simply ignore the Bible on this one?

 

All you people are doing is spewing Scripture verses. I thought this was a debate thread? Can debate take place sans Scripture verses? Or are you so weak in debate that you have to have Scripture verses? What ever happened to using your heads?

I can quote a lot of Scripture too, but actual debate is what we want.

Spewing 50, 100, 500, 1,000 or more Scripture verses doesn't make you any more right than the next person who does it!

 

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

 

GW : The word 'traditions' in the older versions means basically 'teachings' . It does not refer to rites or ceremonies handed down .

I think you should not refer to the use of the Bible as spewing Scripture . There are a number of foul things one should spew out of their mouths ( for instance ) , but the Word of God is not one of them . That is not a wholesome way of expressing your point of view .

BR : Your multiple-colored posts are giving me eye-strain . Just keep it in plain type please .

 

Staying with this is useless. We just keep going round and round in circles.

The Scripture I give is just refuted with other Scripture that is automatically deemed more correct than my Scripture. In some cases, I apparently didn't translate Scripture correctly or to your liking and in other cases my Scripture is ignored if it doesn't jive with your beliefs.

I dislike close-minded people.

Ultimately, I am wrong and the rest of you are right.

I certainly hope you'll all see the truth someday to tradition. I'll be praying for you folks.

Until then, I hope you enjoy wearing your self-centered, "I'm ALWAYS right!" hat.

 

If the praying you are doing for us is to Mary, yer beating a dead horse. She ain't hearing you.

 

HP: How does all this Protestant bashing of fellow believers add anything to serious debate or promote godliness?

 

It doesn't. Thanks for the reminder

 

Why in the world would you make such an absurd claim for Jews in Israel?? It is clear EVEN from the NT text that the leaders KNEW Hebrew - READ Hebrew and HAD ACCESS to the Hebrew text.

If you have some actual proof that the Hebrew text became extinct -- please show it! So far I so no credible evidence for that AT ALL!

In fact given that we EVEN NOW have the DIRECT translations from Hebrew to English -- your wild claim is not even "wishful thinking' it is just misdirection.

in Christ,

Bob