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Secrets in Genesis...

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by BenWest, Mar 12, 2020.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Adam's Earth was small, but that does not mean the Earth was small.

    If there is any consistency to God then the Earth was vastly greater than Adam could grasp and is itself a testimony to God (just as the vastness of the universe, and the depth of the oceans, are for us greater than we know).

    It is always an error, IMHO, to read Scripture as if it were a science book.
     
    #21 JonC, Mar 17, 2020
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  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Except that is not what is actually written. Goodbye.
     
    #22 Reformed1689, Mar 17, 2020
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  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Continue in ignorance if you wish.
     
    #23 Reynolds, Mar 17, 2020
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Its an even more grave error to treat a misreading of The Bible as science text.
     
    #24 Reynolds, Mar 17, 2020
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  5. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    I am going to divided this sentence into two parts.

    חֲמֵ֨שׁ עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה אַמָּה֙ מִלְמַ֔עְלָה גָּבְר֖וּ הַמָּ֑יִם וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ הֶהָרִֽים

    גָּבְר֖וּ הַמָּ֑יִם וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ הֶהָרִֽים = "The waters prevailed and covered the mountains" (main clause). No problem there.

    Also the depth of the water is clear: חֲמֵ֨שׁ עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה אַמָּה֙ = "fifteen cubits." No problem here.

    The key word or words in this section is מִלְמַ֔עְלָה. This word is made up of four parts: prepositions
    מִן (i.e. mem) + ל (i.e. lamed) + מַעַל (i.e. above) + ה (accusative of place ending).


    Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 8.45.29 PM.png
    See Outlines of Hebrew syntax by Friedrich August Müller (p. 44).

    As anyone can see "over above" is an acceptable translation. The question is "over above" what?

    There is only one word in the verse to which the water could have been 15 cubits "over above" and that word is הָרִים (i.e. mountains). The text nowhere mentions the ground\land. The only reference to terrain any kind is the mountains. It is the more natural reading and required no special pleading. If the author wanted us to think the water was 15 cubit above the ground\land all he need to do was add just one word.

    Also note I can find no Hebrew scholar who thinks otherwise.
     
    #25 Origen, Mar 17, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    All occurrences of the term in Genesis 1:3-31 can be understood as to refer to the sky. That this does not make sense to you is your problem, not mine.
     
    #26 37818, Mar 17, 2020
  7. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    IF God the Spirit of Truth told the Truth in Genesis, then every discovery of mankind MUST agree, and it does IF you read Genesis for what it actually says instead of what ancient religious views falsely teach. Only the people of the last days have the ability to understand Genesis. Daniel 12:4
     
    #27 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  8. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Reminds me of someone who thinks they know what Genesis says BUT runs away from what can actually be shown in Genesis. Post the Scripture which supports your view IF you can. We both know that you cannot. Amen?
     
    #28 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  9. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    I show that Scripture, Science, History, Genetics and Math support my views. Can you think of anything which supports your personal opinion? If so, then post it,.
     
    #29 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to post Scripture to prove the Scripture we are talking about doesn't say what you said. You apparently can't read basic English.
     
    #30 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2020
  11. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Sure, and there is one truth for Science, another for Scripture. etc. Pick whichever Truth that sounds good to you. Amen?
     
    #31 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Actually there is just one truth.
     
    #32 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2020
  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    None support your views and you have in no way demonstrated that they do.
     
    #33 Reynolds, Mar 18, 2020
  14. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    God tells Daniel that only the people of the last days have the increased knowledge (education) to understand Scripture. Daniel 12:4 Scripture also tells us that God's people CANNOT understand Scripture.

    Jer 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

    Follow their view but don't fall in the ditch. Mat 15:14
     
    #34 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  15. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Who told you this? Did you swallow the views of ancient superstitious men? Is that WHY you cannot support your view with chapter and verse? Of course it is.
     
    #35 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  16. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Be more specific and it will be easier for me to refute your view.
     
    #36 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  17. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    That does not address the grammar. The reason why you don't is obvious.

    That is no reason to accept the claim of someone who knows shows zero knowledge of the Hebrew when there are numerous Hebrew scholars (both Jewish and Christian) which may be consulted.
     
    #37 Origen, Mar 18, 2020
  18. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Amen. That's the point. IF you cannot support your opinions with chapter and verse, then your opinion is in error. Have you noticed that NO ONE can support their disagreement with me...Scripturally?
     
    #38 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  19. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Scripture does and no one here can refute my opinion, including you.
     
    #39 BenWest, Mar 18, 2020
  20. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    The language of Gen. 7:20 is Hebrew thus it is the grammar of the Hebrew Scriptures that refutes your claim.

    Sounds good!:Roflmao Never let Hebrew grammar get in the way of your personal opinions.

    The other posters\readers can decide for themselves which approach is credible and based upon sound evidence.
     
    #40 Origen, Mar 18, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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