Featured Semi-Pelagianism

Well, that is a dilemma. But you're not trying to justify staying at home like some others here. Some are saying that they don't "need" to attend church. Keep looking and praying and God will find you a church. But your heart is right. That's what matters.

*Also, you can find many sermons online of solid preachers, so you can use that resource until you find a church.

 

Think that one has to really watch going down the Semi-pel road in theology, as it often ends with that person having a really faulty view of both salvation and the Gospel!

 

HP: Greetings Yeshus1.:wavey:

As we all should know, that is a biased and subjective notion you are making but providing no evidence to establish you are right. Show us where whatever it is that you happen to call "Semi-pel" as to where it goes wrong on salvation and the Gospel.

 

Moriah...

You said...

I agree with you that a christian does not "have to" fellowship regularly with other believers (go to church). God will not strike you dead or send curses upon you.

But God does ask us to "not not forsake gathering together" regularly with our brothers and sisters. That is his desire for us. His will. We christians who DO gather together gain so much from it. We are edified. We are blessed. We are streghthend. Many times great unexpected and wonderful things happen during our gatherings.

If you are able to, WHY NOT partake in the banquet of blessings?

 

There are now a whole lot of denominations that practice falseness, some more than others. Walking into any church does not guarantee you will hear God’s Truth. The churches in the New Testament times were during the time the Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus were laying the foundation, and they had laid the foundation. The Bible is finished. Many people still need to be able to go to others for learning of God’s word, due to the unavailability of Bibles, and the ability to read what the Bible says. People running churches will have a lot to answer for. However, people who have Bibles and who can read the truth, yet go to, and support a church that speaks untruths, then that person will also have to answer why they supported a church of falseness.

Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus command us to make earthy altars anymore! As for your statement about archeological evidence, do you follow things that are not in the Bible, and in fact go against the Word of God?

If you are going to a Catholic Church, I suggest you come out of her. The Catholic Church has many blasphemies. She has a human leader called Holy Father, and many other atrocities she does, as bowing to the works of her hands.
Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

 

Would it be correct to say that one holding to Semi pel views would say that they could come to jesus freely by themselves, there would not be the need for God to supply first grace to allow them the choice to come to jesus or not?

 

It is good to hear this Truth.

 

Jesus didn't give the Apostles a book! He gave them a church. If your faith is soley your interpretation of the scriptures then your faith is faulted by you. You aren't sufficient enough to give yourself proper understanding as can be seen by your many posts. The community as it opperated in Judaism upholds the perfect understanding of Torah and its context. So it is with Christianity. Thus the whole community keeps the Orthodox faith rather than each person with their own perspective doing what seems right in their own eyes as we see is the problem in the book of Judges. The Holy Spirit abides in the Church Body not in a book. Jesus Told his disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring to memory all that they needed. He didn't hand them a volume. That kind of volume alone faith leads to Mormonism and Islam where they believe God handed them a book from heaven. Each man thus created a false religion because neither had community to correct them or if there was such a community to correct they rejected correction.

Not true hebrews 13:10 does.

I believe that the Catholic Church is the Church and the Pope isn't the human leader but the person who unifies the Catholic Church as he cannot himself teach against the Magisterium. Or the consistant teaching of the Church from the begining. The rest of your statement is purposely insulting and no more then Rhetoric because you have no evidence.

It is clear you do not take the context of scripture or understand apochryphal literature for you use this verse inappropriately to mean something you want it to rather than what it actually means. It is an example of how you make scriptures what you want it to mean rather than let God speak to you. Its a case of error by your own intellect and the sad part is you have no community to correct your errors because by rellying on your own perspective you make yourself God. Thus you are your own idol.

 

Is it possible to obey the last aspect of the Great Commission outside of church membership?

"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded."

QUESTIONS:

1. Isn't the Lord's Supper part of this command? Isn't this to be observed in one place by the assembly when it comes together - see 1 Cor. 11:20

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God,

33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

Doesn't Paul contrast "at home" with "the church" and which is the proper place for observance of the Supper?


2. Wasn't habitual assembling what Jesus observed - Acts 1:21-22?

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.


3. Doesn't the very nature of this command require at least a teacher and a student habitually assemble?


4. Does the New Testament ever regard any individual believer outside of a local congregation as the NORM?


5. What epistles were ever written to an isolated believer outside a N.T. congregation?


6. Isn't it the REVEALED WILL of God that you forsake not the assemblying together?

Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


7. Can you find any PRECEPT or approved EXAMPLE to forsake the public assembly???


8. Which part of this verse fits your belief and practice?

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


9. As the Lord's coming draws nearer should public assemblying be increased or decreased?

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

Of course that is right TS. Notice that HP avoids answering the same question he continues to ask of others. His premise is that God never commands us to do that which we cannot do. The next follow up question (that he probably knows I will ask of him), is: HP, are you "doing justly, living rightly, and walking humbly with God 100% of the time." Are you keeping this command that you said God expects us to keep, and never commands us to that which we are unable to do?

Secondly, are you addressing this question, that I re-addressed to you, to the saved or the unsaved?

 

That is the way that I was raised as a Catholic. It was a big sin not to go to church every week. That is just false.

I do not believe that most people are getting all that they should be getting when they gather. In fact, so many Christians are living in sin, and many would probably be told to leave.
1 Corinthians 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

Many churches teach falseness. Many churches are expensive. Many churches are so big that the pastors do not even know the people who come.
It sounds like you benefit a lot from the denomination you attend, so why should you not go?

 

The LETTERS were read to the churches. The letters are Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians; Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, and Revelations. The books are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Romans 16:25-27 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

So do not put down the written word and exalt the Catholic Church.

 

People here have called me a Pelagius, and a semi-Pelagius. This is what I know for sure, that we must get Jesus’ teachings and obey them.

 

Isn't that like saying: Because the Catholic Church believes in the trinity then it is wrong for me to believe in it too. If the RCC is doing something right why can't you do the same thing?

Do two wrongs make a right. Are you going to disobey the Bible, and Biblical examples in the Bible just because those in your community are disobeying God. Now who is the hypocrite?

Why should you go to a church that teaches error, and who ever suggested such a thing? Why do you suggest and demean others do such a thing?

Why shouldn't you attend a church that preaches the truth?

 

We can come to Jesus freely after learning of him. All men are not to reject Jesus. When a person hears of Jesus, this is their chance to accept or reject the Lord.
When you get Jesus’ teachings and obey them, you will receive the Spirit of God and Jesus. When God who knows your heart accepts you, you will receive the Holy Spirit. See John 24:23; John 14:21; and Acts 15:8

 

Your position does not hold water.
I know of a Muslim that has memorized the entire NT word for word.
He even obeys many of the teachings of Jesus.
Does that make him a Christian? No! It makes him a knowledgeable Muslim.

 

HP: No, it would not. No one comes to God except the Father draws him. Everything, whether it is natural abilities, drawing, or grace, comes from God. No man, unless the Holy Spirit has completely withdrawn Himself, is devoid of the influences of God. You cannot separate God's influences from man. One thing that man does NOT need, is special abilities to come to Christ. God has endowed man with all the abilities necessary to repent, exercise faith, and walk in obedience with Him if they but hear the message and willingly respond to it. That is NOT coming to God by themselves, nor does one need some 'special grace' or 'special ability' to come to Christ other than what God has already bestowed upon all men. They again, only have to hear and respond to the gospel when it is presented.

It is the Augustinian/ Calvinist and those leaning hard towards Calvinism that try to paint the false notion on all that do not hold to their ideas of total depravity, that man can come to God on their own apart from grace. According to the Augustininian/Calvinisty/ leaning hard towards Calvinism that have to manufacture and define grace in the manner they do because of their false ideas of depravity as they view it. Those holding to original sin have created a false notion of what grace entails to cover for the false notion of total moral depravity from birth Augustine manufactured and they have bought into.

To deny Augustinian/Calvinistic original sin, is NOT to deny the grace of God in salvation by any stretch of the imagination. To deny grace as Augustine/Calvinism tries to define it, is NOT to deny God's grace as you might be suggesting. Those that deny grace from an Augustinian/Calvinistic position is NOT paramount to saying one can come to God on their own or that they deny the grace of God in salvation.

 

That is an illogical assumption.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say I have to go to a denomination and gather with the people there.

Who is the hypocrite? Do you not tell Catholics that they are in a false church? Have you not told Heavenly Pilgrim and me that we were in falseness?

The denominations we have do not correct themselves when they find that they are in error, they will hold onto their falseness forever. Why should you not go to your denomination’s place of gathering if you are happy with it? However, it is not a sin not to join a denomination. According to your beliefs about it being normal for Christians to sin every day would probably require all the churchgoers to stay away from each other anyway.

 

HP: Moriah, your positions are holding water fine. :thumbs:

 

You fight against God’s Word when you say what you did. Did the Muslim come to Jesus and believe what Jesus said? Did the Muslim give up his Islamic teachings and believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Muslims believe in the Islamic religion do NOT believe Jesus is the Son of God.