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Sen Brownback calls Catholic Church Mother Church

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Marcia, Jun 7, 2006.

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  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Sen. Brownback, who heads faith-based initiatives, used to be evangelical but converted to Roman Catholicism. That's fine if he wants to do that, but look at what he said for today's Washington Post:
    Any comments?
     
    #1 Marcia, Jun 7, 2006
  2. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    If he feels more comfortable in that church, I will welcome him. He would have been just as saved if he remained a Protestant.

    We make too much of such things. God cares very little for our petty denominational squabbles.
     
    #2 The Galatian, Jun 7, 2006
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    He is correct when he says that the RCC is the church out of which came orthodoxy and the reformation of protestantism.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #3 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 7, 2006
  4. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Roman Catholics believe that the RCC is the mother church that other denominations arose from. Sen Brownback is a Roman Catholic. What is the problem here?
     
    #4 Gold Dragon, Jun 7, 2006
  5. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I am really surprised at the responses here. The Roman Catholic Church is not the "mother" church!

    Are you all saying that the early church as existing before 400 or 500 AD was Roman Catholic? You all need a good book on church history. This is sad.

    Joseph, I'm really surprised at you -- so Peter was the first pope? This is the Roman Catholic belief. Surely you don't think the RC church is the same as the church in 100, 200, and 300 AD?
     
    #5 Marcia, Jun 8, 2006
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Marcia,

    I didn't say anything that you have accused me of saying. Re-read what I said. It is a fact that the reformation did come out of the RCC when Luther and other Godly men seperated from them. Out of that, came orthodoxy. All of this came out of the RCC.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #6 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 8, 2006
  7. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Marcia, I don't see why you are upset by historical facts. The RCC IS the mother church of all Orthodox churches (remember the Great Schism from history class?), as well as the Protestant denominations, which were a result of the Reformation. These are undisputed facts. Joseph says many things that I disagree with, but he is absolutely right about this. Much ado about nothing.
     
    #7 Magnetic Poles, Jun 8, 2006
  8. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    Re: mother church

    Marcia,

    I cannot speak for others but simply for myself. As I have studied Baptist History and church history he is correct. There is not direct lineage between John the Baptizer (who was not part of the church) the church of Jerusalem of which the disciples (apostles) were part of the leadership and the Baptist churches of today. We have a succession of faith not a succession of churches that has been charted through the years. We understand that God has never left himself without a witness.

    The RCC of today evolved from within the pure body of Christ of 1st Century Christendom. And when the corrupt part of the church proved convincingly that they were in charge true believers exited to Anabaptist movements of varying beliefs but who for the most part kept the basic tenants of the faith.

    I know this definition will not line up with everyone but it is a general position and not an exact one.
     
    #8 thjplgvp, Jun 8, 2006
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I understand where the Roman Catholic Church came from but I would not call it the mother church. The "mother church" (I don't even like the phrase, frankly) is the church of Christ, the body of believers whose foundation is Christ. The Reformation came out of the RC church only in the sense that the gospel was "rediscovered" by Luther and others. The original church was not the Roman Catholic church, and I think that is what Sen. Brownback means by his statement. When the first pope was set up, do you think that was orthodox in the sense of being biblical?
     
    #9 Marcia, Jun 8, 2006
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Marcia,

    Of course not. Can you find anywhere that I said that it was?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #10 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 8, 2006
  11. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Joseph, I wasn't just asking you. Just trying to get clarification. Sorry if I misunderstood you or mischaracterized what you said.

    Do you think the early church in the 1st century was the Roman Catholic Church? Would you say it was the "mother church?"

    I would not say orthodoxy came out of the RC Church. I would say orthodoxy was preserved in God's word which was recognized by the Reformation. That to me is different than saying that orthodoxy came out of the RC Church.

    I started a thread on this in the Baptist Theology and Bible Study forum.
     
    #11 Marcia, Jun 8, 2006
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Marcia,

    I believe the early Church was the Christian Church. I don't think denominations as we know them today even existed back then.

    The Church experienced a return to orthodoxy because of the reformation. The people who led this return came out of the Catholic Church.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #12 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 8, 2006
  13. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I believe Sen Brownback was referring to the Eastern Orthodox Church when he used the word orthodoxy.
     
    #13 Gold Dragon, Jun 8, 2006
  14. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Then the Orthodox at least will take issue with his remark: as far as they are concerned, Orthodoxy has as much right to be called the 'Mother Church' as Catholicism.
     
    #14 Matt Black, Jun 9, 2006
  15. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    It's true. It was a schism, not a secession. The Eastern Church has its own history and apostolic sucession, they are not dissenters.
     
    #15 The Galatian, Jun 10, 2006
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