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Separation of Church and State

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Wiedertaufen, Feb 6, 2004.

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  1. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen New Member

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    Separation of Church and State is a historical Baptist doctrine:

    1. Rulers are appointed of God. (Daniel 2:21; 4:17, 25, 32; 5:21.)

    2. Rulers are the servants of God (not sons) Romans 13:1-4

    3. Rulers are appointed to suppress the evil and protect the good. (Romans 3:13) They are to execute wrath on evil doers. (Genesis 9:5-6, Romans 13:4)

    4. The church is the representive body of Jesus Christ on earth. (Matthew 16:18-19) The Church serves as ambassadors, calling men to experiance rebirth in him. (Luke 2:14, 2 Corinthians 5:20)

    5. The church are strangers and pilgrims in this land, who are called to honor rulers. (Romans 13:7, 1 Peter 2:17) We're to pray for them. (1Timothy 2:1-3)And pay taxes. (Romans 13:6-7) Be subject unto their rules when it does not contradict the word of God. (Romans 13:1, 5; Titus 3:1) We must rememer that our first allegiance is to God. (Acts 4:19, 5:29)

    6. Strangers, and pilgrims have no right to engage in the political activities of the country in which they live.
     
    #1 Wiedertaufen, Feb 6, 2004
  2. JOHN3:16

    JOHN3:16 New Member

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    Tribute-
    1.an annual or stated sum of money or other valuable thing, paid by one prince or nation to another, either as an acknowledgement of submission, or as the price of peace and protection, or by virtue of some treaty.
    2.a personal contibution; as a tribute of respect.
    3.something given or contributed.

    Thank you Websters 1828.
     
    #2 JOHN3:16, Feb 6, 2004
  3. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus New Member

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    Starting at the back and going forward. #6 has no scriptural annotation. Can you give us scriptural foundation for your premise?

    Thanks -----Bart
     
    #3 Bartimaeus, Feb 9, 2004
  4. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen New Member

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    Starting at the back and going forward. #6 has no scriptural annotation. Can you give us scriptural foundation for your premise?

    Thanks -----Bart     </font>[/QUOTE]Hebrews 11:7-16, 2 Corinthians 4:4, 2 Corinthians 6:14 and 17, 2 Corinthians 5:20.
     
    #4 Wiedertaufen, Feb 9, 2004
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Citing scriptural support, while worthy, is redundant to the Baptist, since adherence to the Distinctive of Separation of Church and State is mandatory for Baptist believers. All the distinctives are. We as Baptists trust (rightly so) that the distinctives are derived by our Baptist fathers from scripture interpretation and application.

    However, we as Baptist do not require non-baptists to adhere with the Baptist Distinctives, since the Distinctives are items of methodology, not theology. Adherence to the distinctives are not a requirement for non-Baptist Christians.
     
    #5 Johnv, Feb 9, 2004
  6. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    NOTHING I believe or do as a Baptist can be separated from it's scriptural basis. I'm not a Baptist first and a Christian second but the other way around.
     
    #6 StraightAndNarrow, Feb 9, 2004
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I'm referring to is the fact taht the Distinctives are mandatory for the Baptist. If we disagree with any of them as a matter of biblical interpretation, then we have no business being Baptist.
     
    #7 Johnv, Feb 9, 2004
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    StraightAndNarrow said:

    Well, OK. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world," and there is no scriptural injunction to impose our beliefs on other folks by the power of the government or demand they pay money to support it.

    Sounds like separation to me. I am a Baptist because I think the tradition is fully in line with scripture; not because I accept Baptist principles first.
     
    #8 rsr, Feb 9, 2004
  9. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    I believe totally in the seperation of Church and State. I don't think the Baptist church or any or all other churches have any business trying to run the government. That being said, I totally disagree with the notion that therefore Christians have no business getting involved in and influencing and TOTALLY trying to dominate the government with Christian principles. The idea that government must be antiseptically cleaned of any Christian influence and must remain secular in all of its dealings is beyond reasonable. If Christians ARE allowed to try and influence government then nothing can be wrong with them succeeding.
     
    #9 Artimaeus, Feb 10, 2004
  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Yes. So long as they don't say "Yay, hath God said," in their political leanings.
     
    #10 rsr, Feb 10, 2004
  11. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen New Member

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    I being "sola scriptura" would believe that scriptual authority is much greater in importance than traditional authority.
     
    #11 Wiedertaufen, Feb 11, 2004
  12. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen New Member

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    [/qb][/QUOTE]NOTHING I believe or do as a Baptist can be separated from it's scriptural basis. I'm not a Baptist first and a Christian second but the other way around. [/QB][/QUOTE]

    I am Baptist because of their following of scripture in history.
     
    #12 Wiedertaufen, Feb 12, 2004
  13. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen New Member

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    I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I'm referring to is the fact taht the Distinctives are mandatory for the Baptist. If we disagree with any of them as a matter of biblical interpretation, then we have no business being Baptist. </font>[/QUOTE]I dare to say that this issue might be one of the most forsaken Baptist distinctives.
     
    #13 Wiedertaufen, Feb 12, 2004
  14. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen New Member

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    The separation of kingdoms is the issue here. They are not of our kingdom, the kingdom of God.
     
    #14 Wiedertaufen, Feb 12, 2004
  15. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I'm with Artimaeus on this one: I don't believe there should be such a thing as 'Christendom' ie: a nation which professes to be Christian and/ or is linked to/ controlled by a particular church, not because I'm a Baptist but because the concept of a theocracy belongs firmly in the OT; you don't find it in the NT. Indeed, Christians throughout history have always been a minority in the nations and therefore we should not be surprised that a society, once released from the chains of 'Christendom', no longer follows Christian values. That said, i don't buy into the argument that Christians should not engage in politics - after all, are we not meant to be salt and light? And was not Paul's appeal to Caesar a political act?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #15 Matt Black, Feb 13, 2004
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