Featured Seventh Day Adventist

GE:

Re:
“We see from verse 1 that the day is the first day of the week, which is Sunday, do you agree?”

So what?

Re:
“Did you see that in verse 21 what they said about that day being the “third day” since all took place?”

So what?

Re:
“That third day is Sunday, the first day of the week.”

So what?

Re:
“Therefore, do you think that shows us that Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath, but on Sunday?”

You better explain ‘wherefore’; because I do not see any “therefore”, “in verse 21” as a matter of fact.

Re:
"Did not Jesus say he would raise in three days?"

I would like to ask you, Moriah, in return, You show me the BURIAL of Jesus in verse 21?

 

I hate two things in debate, pedantics and moralizing.

 

GE you are really good on a lot of things but on this subject you simply are wrong.

You make a fundemental mistake of interpretation that the pharisees also made in regard to the ten commandments. Their interpretation of the Ten commandments restricted the commandments to a narrower application than God designed them for.

For example, the command "thou shalt not committ murder" was restricted by them to merely an external application or the actual act. However, the command was designed by principle to embrace a much larger area of coverage.

The same is true with the fourth commandment. You interpret the fourth commandment to a more constricted application than God designed it for. This is obvious because the application by God is inclusive of Sabbath observance on periods of time other than the seventh "day" (Lev. 23 - 1,7,8,10,14,15,21,22,28) and other than a twenty four hour "day" (Lev. 23,25 - seventh month, seventh year, 49th year, 50th year).

Hence, any interpretation of the fourth commandment that does not allow for this broader Biblical application is simply wrong. That is why God does not include in the commandment the words "day of the week" as that would restrict it to a narrower application than God Himself applies it. The fourth commandment only demands one seventh in a period of seven. The term "yom" includes a 24 hour period of time (Gen. 2:3)but also by God's own usage allows for a greater period of time (Gen. 2:4). Both uses of "yom" are applied to the seven days of creation. Of course the seven days of creation are reflected in the fourth commandment but the seven days of creation provide also a greater pattern of prophetic time than a mere week as reflected in the use of seven in Revelation and also as reflected in the use of "week" in Daniel 9.

The Jewish application of the weekly Sabbath is the OLD Covenant application whereas the first day of the week sabbath which is the emphatic sabbath in all the Old Testament feast types of Christ and his Work is the New Covenant Sabbath. The Old Covenant Sabbath commemorates the OLD creation which also will be done away as was the Old Covenant. The New Covenant Sabbath is better as it commemorates the day after the Seventh Millennium or the ETERNAL day - Rev. 21:1-2.

The Jewish application of the Sabbath ends with the culimnation of the seventh thousandth year and the destruction of the very thing it commemorated - this old earth. Interestingly, the fourth commandment looks backward at the old creation (Ex. 20) but also looks foreward (Deut 5) to the type of redemption and the new creation just as it is inclusive of an application to the seventh day of the week by the Jews as it is applied tothe "first" day of the week emphasized in all the NEW Covenant redemptive types of Christ in the Levitical 23 feasts.

GE your error is not that you apply it to the Jewish seventh day of the week as that is a legitimate application. Your error is that you RESTRICT it to the seventh day of the Week when God does not either literally as seen in Levitcus 23,25 or in types of the New Covenant also seen in Leviticus 23-25. The change of emphasis comes with the commemoration of a greater work of God than creation - the resurrection day of Jesus Christ which was not on the Jewish sabbath Day but on the first day of the week. There is not a single solitary passage from John 20 to the book of Revelation where it is ever recorded that any church met for worship on the Jewish Sabbath but always on the first day of the week. The only thing you can show is that Paul went to the Jew first on their Sabbath and witnessed to them but never conducted church worship on that day.

 

You are a seventh day Adventist?

 

No, GE is not a Seventh Day Adventist. He is more like a Church of God Seventh day advocate.

 

Do they hold to the so called mark of the Beast in revelation being those who willingly worship on Sunday though?
That salvation might hang on that?

 

You will have to find that out from GE. Hopefully he does not do that because if he did it would deny his strong assertion that we are saved by grace and not by works.

 

GE:

This is _you_ interpreting .... trying on the shoe ... perhaps finding it fits.

 

GE:


O dear o dear ... O God, help me!

I'll be damned rather than be one of the two!

I am - God help me and God be my witness - a
Reformed Protestant Christian –
‘Sabbaths’ Feast Of Christ Assembling’ –
subscribing to, confessing and believing
WITH THE CHURCH OF ALL TIMES AND PLACES
the Three Formulae of Concord and
confessing the Apostolicum and
other Confessions such as Athanasius',
BUT, REJECT,
Sunday-worship as seen in the Church of "Christ's Own"
as it makes itself GUILTY of CORRUPTING the Word of God
for its wanton disobedience, and of IDOLATRY as denounced in Galatians 4:10.
I also PROTEST against water baptism another than the ONLY and "ONE baptism"
but am willing to tolerate it and keep a low profile concerning it in Christ's Body for the sake of peace.

NEVER think or say I am a SDA or worse --- FAR worse --- "like a Church of God Seventh day".

I am trying to be and honestly think I am and 'advocate' of God's Word none other than FOUND IN THE SCRIPTURES.

I challenge Church and hell to reprove me in any respect as far as that is concerned.

If I am the ONLY one thus of faith, I am the only one, with one prayer from within my heart over my lips,
“Where two or three IN MY NAME – Jesus Christ our Lord – are gathered together, there I shall be.”

 

GE:

With respect, Biblicist, you have not answer my simple question,
Re:
"Did not Jesus say he would raise in three days?"

I would like to ask you, Moriah, in return, You show me the BURIAL of Jesus in verse 21?

But yours is the typical defence that buries the pertinent question in philosophical wisdom that needs no and lacks any "thus it is written".

 

GE:

.... which is "the only thing you can show ...." EVERY WORD and every IDEA, _yours_; 'the biblicists'; not the Bible's.

INCORRECT words, none of found "from" ... or before ... John 20 to the last word of Revelation 20.

That is already unacceptable in dealing with the Scriptures— to chop it up like you do; and chopping, sound so impressive …

It is also quite wrong to try get the Scriptures’ message from “solitary” single “passages”.

It is simply UNTRUE and pathetically incorrect and faulty the way you so self-assuredly (… self-insuring, a blind man could feel it with his stokkie!) multiply words true and false intermingled— because … the resurrection day of Jesus Christ was,
“sabbatohn”, “Sabbath’s Day” / “Sabbath’s time” / “belonging to the Sabbath” / “of the Sabbath” / “on the Sabbath” / “in the Sabbath” or else you would have needed and would have had no Genitive “sabbatohn”, but the Accusative ‘sabbaton’ PLUS a certain Preposition to the effect of the likes of ‘meta’, ‘after’.

Now THIS was the “Sabbath” / “the day The Sabbath Day of the LORD GOD” and “the day The Seventh Day _God_, thus concerning did speak, And God on the day The Seventh Day [Sabbath— ‘of the week’] from ALL his works, RESTED”.
… in CHRIST, rested … in Christ in RESURRECTION from the dead, rested!

Present anything like it from the Scriptures that Christ would or that He did rise from the dead “on the first day of the week”?!

Don’t just make assertions of true facts, yes, like that it “… was not on the Jewish sabbath Day” that he rose, but which are IRRELEVANT assertions. Because Jesus did not rise from the dead “on the _Jewish_ sabbath day”! How could it be the Jewish or the Jews’ sabbath day that Jesus rose on WHILE THEY DID NOT EVEN BELIEVE IN HIM OR THAT HE RESURRECTED, OR THAT HE WAS “LORD OF THE SABBATH”?! While the Jews denied Jesus was the Lord, and denied that He rose from the dead, they DENIED HIS LORDSHIP which was a Lordship OBTAINED through victory over death and the grave! Jesus’ resurrection on their ‘Jewish sabbath day’ for the Jews would have been the pinnacle of blasphemy!
Therefore, even viewed from this ultra negative point of view, Truth as it is in Jesus Christ DEMANDS HE ROSE from the dead “IN FULLNESS OF THE SABBATH’S DAY”, ‘opse de sabbatohn’.

Don’t just make general irrelevant references into the air, but be Scriptures-specific … and conclude Christ’s Resurrection from the dead “On the Sabbath Day the mid-afternoon towards the First Day of the week having begun to incline”,
1) “sabbatohn”;
2) “opse de sabbatohn”;
3) “sabbatohn tehi epiphoskousehi”;
4) “sabbatohn eis mian [hehmeran] sabbatohn.”

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Biblicist
.........................
The only thing you can show is that Paul went to the Jew first on their Sabbath and witnessed to them but never conducted church worship on that day.


GE:

Sorry to disappoint you, Biblicist; this is all you can do; not me; nor Paul or Luke.
We all not even knew about such possibility.

 

GE we have discussed this very text before, don't you remember? The context is clear. The "third day" is contextually is identified as the first day of the week. He was to rise ON the third day. Thursday evening just before 6pm he is placed in the grave - morning one. 6pm Thursday to 6 pm Friday is one evening and two morning; 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday is two evening and three moring. 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday is 3rd evening.

 

We know the church followed Sunday as gathering day, to honor their risen Lord

Know that paul said one free to worship either sat/Sun in the Lord, just don't impose your chosen day on everyone else!

Know Hebrews makes it clear the true Sabbath rest of the Christians now found 'In Christ!"

 

I am weary of this debate. You are right one out of two. My exposition on Hebrews 4:1-14 is found in past threads on the Sabbath day. The Lord's Day is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy and commemorates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and looks forward to a new creation under a New Covenant. It's observation is not under the ceremonial or civil law of Moses. Psalm 118:25 defines the spirit of it proper observation - "we will rejoice and be glad in it" and the New Testament provides a pattern for worship on the Lord's Day (1 Cor. 11-14; 2 Cor. 11:1-2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:10).

Old Testament saints entered into the spiritual application of the fourth commandment by the "rest" of faith (Heb. 4:2-3) but nevertheless still kept a Sabbath day keeping. The "rest" of faith did not completely fulfill it, nor did the "rest' of palestine under Joshua, nor did the "rest" from war under David and Solomon. We still of observe a Sabbath day rest, but a better one, that will have its ultimate fulfillment in the New Heavens and new earth yet to come.

 

What was i wrong about though?

 

GE:


Bib, I do not think the two of us discussed "this very text" before. No, I am very sure about that …

… because, should you and I have discussed it, we would not have got further than at this very point in the discussion. See, WHICH now, is, your, “this very text”? I cannot see that you got it as clear as the context is clear. Ja, sure, “The "third day" is contextually … identified as the first day of the week.” Actually, the very _words_ are “clear”— the very words of verses 1 and 2 … “in the context” are clear it was the First Day / Sunday morning.

First of all therefore, WHAT are these very words telling us about? About the Resurrection? Show me “the very word” or words?! No sir! NOT THERE! Neither in the very words; nor in the very context!

Therefore, Next, Why don’t you give … quote … the very text WHERE in context in Luke 24 it is stated, “He was to rise ON the third day.”? Because Bib, no words to that effect exist “in the context” or in the “very words” of verses 1 or 2. That’s a fact.

WHY, dear Biblicist, DO YOU NOT QUOTE the very word, _“TODAY”_ = “the First Day of the week” in the very text of verse 21? Here is why, because you imply ANOTHER ‘day’ than “today” referred to OUT of context that nothing at all had to do with “today” in verse 1-2! THAT is fact 2.

Fact 3 is “the First Day” _name_ for ‘Sunday’, is referred to as “today” by Cleopas in verse 18; but “the third day” NO name numeral for the IN CONTEXT UNIDENTIFIED day of Jesus’ Resurrection, is referred to by Christ.

Fact 4 is “the First Day” is referred to as “today” by Cleopas in verse 18, before “the day (was) declining” and before it was “far spent” in bright daylight mid-afternoon of the First Day of the week; but Christ made mention of another and in context unidentified day, “the third day” as the day that He would rise from the dead on, well into NIGHT after sunset that day Sunday; in other words, AFTER the First Day, ON the Second Day of the week.

Most important FACT is though, that Christ referred to all the centuries before during which “all the Scriptures” prophesied of Him, that He would rise from the dead “on the third day” where NEVER EVER reference to or association with the First Day of the week had been made, but to “the third day” of Egypt’s “plague that was upon Him” in his “Passover of Yahweh-SUFFERING”—

1) “on the very first day” of the “three days” having died death;

2) “on BONE-day unleavened bread shall be eaten”, “that very day having been great day sabbath” of the Passover of Yahweh” Christ having been buried and deserted in death;

3) “and the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES having been RAISED from the dead” … “and God from all his works the Seventh Day did REST” having “raised Christ from the dead by the GLORY of the Father”, “THE THIRD DAY”! Sela.

Conclusive FACT of facts, “today the third day since” of verse 21 not in the least had anything to do with “the third day” that Christ rose from the dead on.

LET TRUTH TRIUMPH! Do not trample upon the truth because TRUTH is God’s, not the toy of childishly stubborn men.

So,
Re:
“Thursday evening just before 6pm he is placed in the grave –“
Scripture?
No Scripture!
Except the Scriptures that mention “It having had become evening already …” Jesus’ body STILL on the cross; and “… this that NIGHT …” Jesus’ body still to be anointed and embalmed— not nearly buried yet.

… and phew, gone, your whole confused chronology …

 

This looks like an offshoot
https://sites.google.com/site/theendtimewarning/the-name-seventh-day-adventist

I had heard about the SDA's originally denying the Trinity, but perhaps this is referring to what was splitting off as the Church of God 7th Day? (Though that was in the 1800's. Sure about the SDA church being non-trinitarian until as late as the 1930's?)

Millerism originally stemmed from Baptist and Methodist, and seemed to retain the Trinity, (and among some, Sunday), but the CG7 adopted a binitarian position in addition to rejecting E.G.Whites teachings. It seemed the Millerite movement was a spawning ground for a lot of questioning of "traditional orthodox "doctrines". So perhaps this movement may stem from that period, as a faction that questioned the Trinity and yet still held to White?

 

Believe SDA were always trinitarian, but also know had erronous views such as White being a modern prophet, keeping saturday required, as Sunday would get one mark of the beast, investigative judgement, in which ones life weighed to see if heaven or not, soul sleep, sinners burnt up etc!