The original thread closed at a point where our SDA Bob Ryan was being pressed against the ropes to give an answer concerning SDA Sabbath keeping. He made a few attempts to deflect answering by posting rabbit trials hoping I would chase after them, but I will give him another chance here to prove his position on SDA Sabbath keeping as it relates to salvation.
Here is the yet to be answered question...(hint, the answer is either "yes" or "no")
Before you declare I am wrong, tell me, what would happen to you Bob if you decided to stop keeping the SDA Sabbath and began attending Baptist or Catholic services on Sunday? Would you still be saved?
Stay focused. The question is clear and pointed. Would you still be saved if you decided to stop keeping the SDA Sabbath and began attending Baptist or Catholic services on Sunday?
Seventh-day Adventists continued...
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jan 3, 2018.
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The previous thread ended where Steaver was being pressed against the ropes to explain how it is that all his complaints about the SDA denomination could possibly have reduced down to his "declare all Catholics as bound for hell... or else" posts. He makes a few attempts to deflect from this problem -- but it remains. How can he be serious??
======================================== from my last response to Steaver .. which is still unanswered.
Knowing that "sin IS transgression of the LAW" ? 1 John 3:4
Knowing that "rebellion is not LOVE for God" since 1 John 5:2-3 says that "3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
Knowing that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19??
Knowing that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Knowing that "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is SIN" James 4:17?
Knowing that Jesus is "LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:27?
So you are saying if I were to reject all of scripture and become a Catholic "would I still be saved"???
Are you even serious??
Of course that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God.
Even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.
You knew that right?
Is this all "news to you" after having posted on it 20,000 times?
you seem to be "stuck" on the idea that if I don't condemn every single Catholic on planet earth to hell - that this shows the one big problem in the SDA set of doctrines. Is that "seriously" the hill you want to die on - as they say... given that you have the glaring problem of leaving it "to me" to defend section 19 of your "Baptist Confession of Faith" ??? You seem to have much bigger issues to deal with than this "condemn every Catholic --- or else" idea.
So then you are not at all serious on that point you raise about the becoming-Catholic scenario???
Just more gaming??
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then... ignoring every Bible text and every detail given in the answer... Steaver circles back to the start
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Rebellion against God is not 'for salvation" as we probably both know.
For example - I do not believe that all Catholics are all lost because they all bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent even though this clearly violates the Commandments of God. (As I have said in the past) -- "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin". James 4:17
so then your "non essential for salvation" could be worked into a lot of scenarios trying to get all of scripture to be "non essential".
I also believe that Romans 2:13-16 - says that gentiles with no access to scripture at all - are in some cases saved because they experience the New Birth - via the Holy Spirit.
This does not mean that as Christians we should ignore the Bible or should bow down before images or should not know who Christ is... Or should view all of that as "not important" for Christians.
all of your games aside "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.
the text remains true no matter how many "yes no" games you would like to engage in as we probably both agree.
============================ steaver replied
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1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
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Your attempt to BEND Proverbs 16 so as to directly contradict James 4:17 "noted". But it fails. James is dealing with the real issue of those who know certain things to be true - but do not know "all truth" and thus are not accountable on certain points.
John 9:41 -- Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains".
think about it. Simply "gaming" each of these Bible teachings... in the end ... will get you nowhere for "God is not mocked" Gal 6:7 -
As you can see, the SDA has no peace that their soul is guaranteed safe and sound resting in Jesus Christ alone. The only comfort they can give themselves is generated from themselves, convincing themselves they are following enough commandments which their church has told them are necessary for their "path of salvation". So where does the SDA's hope in salvation lie? It is in themselves and in the SDA church, how many commandments are they keeping, for to stop keeping the SDA Sabbath, as this SDA follower here has said, "that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God".
Abuse and misapplication of the Scriptures is rampant within these organizations. You will see them post reference after reference, flooding the board with God's precious Word, but it is done in vain, Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
So salvation is either a gift of God or it is something of yourself that you work towards. Ask yourself, which is it for you? Scripture is very clear, so be very cautious when any church or organization tells you it is anything less than a free Gift of God through faith.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
(Eph 2) Could God have said that any clearer? Therefore any Scripture which is posted to challenge this Scripture on salvation would by default have to be a deliberate abuse of God's Word and for what end? To enslave the person to their organization and build their lucrative empire.
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Which is how even the Catholics in the example I gave - are saved.
(If you read the posts in the actual thread - you will be able to respond to them) -
So also in Exodus 20 all TEN of the TEN commandments spoken to ISRAEL - that includes "Do not take God's name in vain" -- and we both know it.
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 -- is irrefutable.
Gentiles in the OT specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:5-8
"Sabbath MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
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Or were you about to reject both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody's statements agreeing with the Bible on this point about all TEN of the TEN commandments applying to ALL Mankind??? -
=================== here it is again
For example - I do not believe that all Catholics are all lost because they all bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent even though this clearly violates the Commandments of God. (As I have said in the past) -- "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin". James 4:17
so then your "non essential for salvation" could be worked into a lot of scenarios trying to get all of scripture to be "non essential".
I also believe that Romans 2:13-16 - says that gentiles with no access to scripture at all - are in some cases saved because they experience the New Birth - via the Holy Spirit.
This does not mean that as Christians we should ignore the Bible or should bow down before images or should not know who Christ is... Or should view all of that as "not important" for Christians.
all of your games aside "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.
the text remains true no matter how many "yes no" games you would like to engage in as we probably both agree.
BobRyan said: ↑John 9:41 -- Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains".
think about it. Simply "gaming" each of these Bible teachings... in the end ... will get you nowhere for "God is not mocked" Gal 6:7Click to expand... -
I almost never get a chance to do that -- as clearly as that... thanks Steaver
It is incredibly obvious to the objective unbiased Bible student when you set it up for me that way. -
The BIBLE will not fit your 'yes/no gaming model' - but here we have the Bible "anyway" for your proposal above that I become Catholic and then what consequence.
Knowing that "sin IS transgression of the LAW" ? 1 John 3:4
Knowing that "rebellion is not LOVE for God" since 1 John 5:2-3 says that "3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
Knowing that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19??
Knowing that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Knowing that "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is SIN" James 4:17?
Knowing that Jesus is "LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:27?
So you are saying if I were to reject all of scripture and become a Catholic "would I still be saved"???
Are you even serious??
Of course that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God.
Even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.
You knew that right?
steaver said: ↑And there you have it. This is why we fight the good fight against organizations which teach and preach against the grace and forgiveness of sins that is given only through faith in Jesus Christ. My wife always says to me "why do you argue with those people, you are not going to change their minds"Click to expand... -
steaver said: ↑As you can see, the SDA has no peace that their soul is guaranteed safe and sound resting in Jesus Christ alone. The only comfort they can give themselves is generated from themselves, convincing themselves they are following enough commandments which their church has told them are necessary for their "path of salvation". So where does the SDA's hope in salvation lie? It is in themselves and in the SDA church, how many commandments are they keeping, for to stop keeping the SDA Sabbath, as this SDA follower here has said, "that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God".
Abuse and misapplication of the Scriptures is rampant within these organizations. You will see them post reference after reference, flooding the board with God's precious Word, but it is done in vain, Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
So salvation is either a gift of God or it is something of yourself that you work towards. Ask yourself, which is it for you? Scripture is very clear, so be very cautious when any church or organization tells you it is anything less than a free Gift of God through faith.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
(Eph 2) Could God have said that any clearer? Therefore any Scripture which is posted to challenge this Scripture on salvation would by default have to be a deliberate abuse of God's Word and for what end? To enslave the person to their organization and build their lucrative empire.Click to expand...
So to give you full focus on this on topic - I am starting "yet another" thread on OSAS debunked.
#1 BobRyan, A moment ago
does not survive the Bible details in Romans 11 where we see 'salvation revoked"
Does not survive the Bible details in John 15 where those 'in Christ" are cut off and burned up.
Does not survive the Bible details in Ezek 18 where we see forgiveness revoked.
Does not survive the Bible details in Ephesians 6 where we see salvation revoked
Does not surive Paul's statement in 1 Cor 9 - "LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"
Does not survive Romans 2:13
Does not survive Romans 2:4-9
Does not survive the details of Gal 4 "I fear I have labored over you in vain"
You "might" view that as just "so many Bible texts to be ignored" -- but I don't -
SDA guru Ellen G. White wrote,
“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.”Click to expand...
SOURCE: Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA; Commentary V, p. 1129)
She also wrote:
"Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses..."Click to expand...
And again:
"There is none that holdeth with me in these things but Michael (Christ) your prince."Click to expand...
She also wrote, in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761,"...He (Jesus) was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's Host, Michael the Archangel".Click to expand...
And your own "Clear Word Bible" reads:
"In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael, the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host. When He was challenged by Satan about His intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come against Satan with a blistering attack nor did he belittle him. He simply said, 'God rejects your claim to his body.'"Click to expand...
So, we have the words of both your swami & your false bible telling the big fat lie that Jesus is the archangel Michael. this is undeniable evidence. That in itself is enough to discredit the Seven-Day-Adlibbers completely. But there's much more, of course. -
Published in the SDA's Ministry magazine, Oct. 1981 -
"We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other".Click to expand...
EGW wrote in "The Faith I Live By" p. 211,
"At the time appointed for the judgement - the close of the 2300 days, in 1844began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins...both the living and the dead are to be judged "out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works".Click to expand...(Rev. 20:12".)Click to expand...
Never forget this Bible verse!
2nd Corinthians 11:3, “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” -
BobRyan said: ↑The BIBLE will not fit your 'yes/no gaming model' - but here we have the Bible "anyway" for your proposal above that I become Catholic and then what consequence.
Knowing that "sin IS transgression of the LAW" ? 1 John 3:4
Knowing that "rebellion is not LOVE for God" since 1 John 5:2-3 says that "3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
Knowing that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19??
Knowing that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Knowing that "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is SIN" James 4:17?
Knowing that Jesus is "LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:27?
So you are saying if I were to reject all of scripture and become a Catholic "would I still be saved"???
Are you even serious??
Of course that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God.Click to expand...
Contrast this self work with the Word of God, which ironically, the SDA is rejecting, the same accusation they cast upon the Catholic...."For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
(Eph 2) -
BobRyan said: ↑I almost never get a chance to do that -- as clearly as that... thanks Steaver
It is incredibly obvious to the objective unbiased Bible student when you set it up for me that way.Click to expand...
steaver said: ↑Stay focused. The question is clear and pointed. Would you still be saved if you decided to stop keeping the SDA Sabbath and began attending Baptist or Catholic services on Sunday?Click to expand...
BobRyan said: ↑Of course that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God.Click to expand...
steaver said: ↑Abuse and misapplication of the Scriptures is rampant within these organizations. You will see them post reference after reference, flooding the board with God's precious Word, but it is done in vain, Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.Click to expand...steaver said: ↑So salvation is either a gift of God or it is something of yourself that you work towards. Ask yourself, which is it for you? Scripture is very clear, so be very cautious when any church or organization tells you it is anything less than a free Gift of God through faith.Click to expand...
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
(Eph 2) Could God have said that any clearer? Therefore any Scripture which is posted to challenge this Scripture on salvation would by default have to be a deliberate abuse of God's Word and for what end? To enslave the person to their organization and build their lucrative empire. -
BobRyan said: ↑Rebellion against God is not 'for salvation" as we probably both know.
For example - I do not believe that all Catholics are all lost because they all bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent even though this clearly violates the Commandments of God. (As I have said in the past) -- "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin". James 4:17
so then your "non essential for salvation" could be worked into a lot of scenarios trying to get all of scripture to be "non essential".
I also believe that Romans 2:13-16 - says that gentiles with no access to scripture at all - are in some cases saved because they experience the New Birth - via the Holy Spirit.
This does not mean that as Christians we should ignore the Bible or should bow down before images or should not know who Christ is... Or should view all of that as "not important" for Christians.
all of your games aside "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.
the text remains true no matter how many "yes no" games you would like to engage in as we probably both agree.Click to expand...steaver said: ↑I agree, it is! Here it is again....
The SDA answer...
Keep posting!Click to expand...
Rebellion against God is not 'for salvation" as we probably both know.
For example - I do not believe that all Catholics are all lost because they all bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent even though this clearly violates the Commandments of God. (As I have said in the past) -- "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin". James 4:17
so then your "non essential for salvation" could be worked into a lot of scenarios trying to get all of scripture to be "non essential".
I also believe that Romans 2:13-16 - says that gentiles with no access to scripture at all - are in some cases saved because they experience the New Birth - via the Holy Spirit.
This does not mean that as Christians we should ignore the Bible or should bow down before images or should not know who Christ is... Or should view all of that as "not important" for Christians.
all of your games aside "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.
the text remains true no matter how many "yes no" games you would like to engage in as we probably both agree.
Eph 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. -
BobRyan said: ↑For example - I do not believe that all Catholics are all lost because they all bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent even though this clearly violates the Commandments of God.Click to expand...BobRyan said: ↑....if I were to reject all of scripture and become a Catholic "would I still be saved"???
Are you even serious??
Of course that would not be the path of salvation - that would be rejecting the Word of God.Click to expand... -
BobRyan said: ↑Eph 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.Click to expand...
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