1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Sheri Klouda surprised at fallout from her ‘removal’ at Southwestern

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Jan 26, 2007.

  1. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    Well certainly by the time Dr. Hemphill got several years into his time any "liberals" (let's be honest in theological terms the real "liberals" in the SBC were just extroverted moderates) had either retired or moved on from SWBTS.

    NOTHING needed to be turned around at SWBTS. Dr. Hemphill is a saint imho for his hard work at pastoring SWBTS to health during his term. (Yes I really believe that because I believe his heart was all over being with the students.)
     
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    I knew Dr. Dilday and Dr. Hemphill personally and I diagree with you some. Both were fine men. Dr. Hemphill changed a lot for the better while he was there. Dr. Dilday raised the academic level a lot. It was the trustees who were liars. They were the problem not anyone among the faculty or leadership at SWBTS. At the time several of us knew about the chairman of the trustees and his problems long before it was exposed publically. He enjoyed immorality among weak women in his church. He was good at trying to put on an image but many of us could see through the veneer.

    When you have the majority of trustees suporting a lie ti ought to tell you something abvout the kind of people they are. When you have a group of trustees supporting an addition to any already large president's home to house books and trophy animals it ought to tell you somehting about them. Whiole at the same time the prsedient was calling out for more money at SWBTS. He has wanted to start a college to give the impression or more numbers. There is a glut on the market of preachers wanting to be professors and then to give the students a narrowly focused education of Bible and nothing else goes contrary to what the SBC has proclaimed as needing more bi-vocational pastors. A bi-vocational pastor does not need just Bible to get a job. He needs some other skill. Almost all of the theology students I graduated with are not pastoring today. Many of them are working at unskilled jobs and are unable to support their families very well. Imagine what they see when they come to SWBTS and then hear of the need for more money for missions, etc.
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    Shortly after Patterson came almost the entire faculty had either left or retired. Let me assure you that none of them were liberal. In fact Hemphill invited Dr. Corley back and he left when Patterson arrived. Some of the faculty and administration took early retirement. Karen Bullock went to Criswell the same place where Patterson was opposed by several faculty members who left to go to SWBTS. Eventually he came to SWBTS. That is when one of the problems began.

    Perhaps you should inquire why the past registrar was removed when he told the admionistartion that SWBTS was below standard academically.

    From what I know I would not trust the administartion at SWBTS. They are less ethical then any secular administration I have been under. If Patterson did what he did with Klouda and Bullock at a university he would be most likely be removed from his position because the university would be under investigation and lawsuits.

    It is like the old man who said, "Your actions speak so loud I can't hear your words."

    Who is the real liberal?
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,944
    Likes Received:
    1,661
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nothing personal, but that's funny:laugh:

    peace to you:praying:
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    Not to the person who had to leave, sell his home, move his family, and take a position somewhere else.
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,944
    Likes Received:
    1,661
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was referring to your quote about "academic standards" which contained two different (and incorrect) spelling variations of the word "administration".

    Like I said, don't take it personal. I'm a terrible speller. It is OK to laugh at ourselves occasionally.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  7. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,318
    Likes Received:
    0
    She has the gift of teaching???

    She has the gift of teaching, she should teach period.

    Now if her students say they have not been taught in an excellent manner then she should not teach but if she is above and beyond professional in her gift...she should get a raise.

    Apparently she is in high regard in her field and has a lot to share and if she just so happens to have the gift to pass that on by teaching(the gift)
    then those who want to control women and join hands with religious Taliban types..that belief belongs in a heaping burining stinking garbage dump...they are ignorant and backwards and have more in common with
    extremeist Islam.
     
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    maybe this isn't for here...i don't know

    the big thing here isn't just gender roles, it is how far into our society does the church push the roles described by Paul. There are plenty of examples in the NT of faithful women in roles within the church and society of proclaiming the Gospel. Personally I don't think the seminary is a church so some criteria doesn't line up. The issue with Drs. Patterson is they want to make normative for most all of Christian society their personal doctrinal preference. While their work with the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood has been excellent (I do subscribe to a complimentarian view of things), it seems they are attempting to move their read of the NT across lines which it should be held back from.

    Maybe the bigger debate here is how far should allow a particular group of people to advance their read of a doctrinal preference across ecclesial lines. Also the big question is: Does a seminary fall into the same roles and regulations as a local NT church?

    hope that rambling post makes sense
     
  9. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    btw, for what's is worth...

    one cannot sit in a classroom where Dr. Sheri Klouda is teaching and not know for certain that she has been blessed with a tremendous gift for teaching and communicating.
     
  10. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, Dr Bullock is at Dallas Baptist University, not Criswell. I have heard Dr Bullock speak several times over the past couple of years, to her credit, she only speaks highly of the institution that did not treat her well.

    I have a ton of respect for Dr Hemphill, unfortunately for him, the trustees did not think he was moving fast enough to get rid of certain professors - hence the hiring of Craig Blaising as the provost. Blaising was the one that initially denied Dr Bullock tenure, but the Drs. Patterson had heard things about Dr bullock that were not true and would not believe the truth.
     
  11. guitarpreacher

    guitarpreacher New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    0
    Too bad Dr. Patterson wasn't around when Priscilla helped to educate Apollos. He could have nipped that in bud.
     
  12. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    :laugh: :laugh:
     
  13. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    She is indeed a classy lady.

    interesting point and thanks for bringing it up. I actually know the student who made those accusations which initially brought up the junk; that student later recanted when seriously questionned about these accusations.
     
    #33 preachinjesus, Feb 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2007
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    This is not a comment on the Sheri Kloudas situation, since I don't know much about it -- just a comment on the statement above.

    Priscilla is always mentioned along with Aquila, and it doesn't say she taught Apollos, only that she and Aquila explained some things to him in one particular incident. So I don't see how this is a valid analogy to the situation being discussed here.
     
  15. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    If you will examine the word for "explain" in Acts 18:26 you will find that it brings with it the idea of teaching. So I would say that it is a relevant point in the discussion. Priscilla helped to teach a man the way of God more fully. How is that any different than what Ms. Klouda was doing?
     
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    Because
    1. It was a one-time thing, not a consistent teaching
    2. Priscilla and Aquila did it, not Priscilla by herself

    I am not taking a position on the Klouda issue, but I don't see the analogy with Aquila and Priscilla straightening out Apollos because he had some things wrong because he only knew the baptism of John.

    I just don't see how the 2 are related at all.
     
  17. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    How do you know this? The text does not share with is whether it was a one time event or something that they did often. Since the text does not share with us either way, you cannot conclude that it is a one-time thing.

    This is correct. However, I think it is pretty noteworthy considering the attitude towards women of the day that she was allowed to teach alongside of Aquila. Even though it was a together thing, she was still a part of the process of teaching a man regarding the way of God. You cannot get around that no matter how you look at it.
     
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hello, again, PastorSBC1303! True we don't know if it was just once or more, but we also don't know it was not more than once! It seems that they were correcting some views held by Apollos that were wrong - they took him aside to explain or teach him in order to correct him. Just reasonably speaking, this does not sound like a long term thing to me, or else Apollos had more problems than the text lets on.

    But the fact that it is not clear whether it was a once only event or more should be a good reason NOT to use it to support a woman teaching over a long period of time.

    I also think it is equally noteworthy that her husband is mentioned as being part of it.

    So we have an incident that might be a one time thing -- or not, with a husband and wife correcting one person. I still don't see how this could support a woman teaching men. It is very thin - beyond thin - imo.

    If I wanted to support the view that a woman could teach men (putting aside the issue of what "teach" means, which I think might be the real issue), I would not use this passage.
     
  19. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    Marcia, I respect your views. I disagree to an extent. However, we are probably getting away from the intent of the OP, so I shall bow out of this part of the discussion.
     
  20. kmichael

    kmichael New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is an unfortunate event which is ultimately doing more harm than good in the Convention. I appreciate Burleson and all he has done for the SBC, but this matter should be left up to the trustees of SWBTS. The splattering of our intradenomination tiffs is not pleasing to the Lord. Adrian Rogers once said that our colleges and seminaries MUST teach what the conventions tell them to teach, and I agree. He went on to say that if we tell them to teach that pickles have souls, then they better teach that pickles have souls. If Burleson, a member of a different SBC board, has an issue then he should express his views privately. Open disallegence is quite shameful, imo. We have intruste the care of SWBTS to its current trustees. And to Dr. Patterson. Let these men do what they feel God is leading them to do. We do not ordain women to preach, and of the men we do, theology should be instructed by like ordained men of God. This is a perfectly valid, and Baptistic argument, one which I support. More importantly, I support God, and his sovereign design. If you disagree that is fine. Fill up your church van with messengers and take them to the convention and humbly and prayerfully vote for a different President. We have a system.....it should not include the media.

    As to the PPL issue, we need to get over it. Dr, Rankin is a wonderful man of God. SBC Churches need to support the CP or jump ship.

    It IS possible to constrict doctrine so much so to the point that we could split the convention 16 million 4 hundred thousand different ways. :tear:

    We need more :1_grouphug: and less :BangHead: because :godisgood:


    Kevin from St. Louis
     
    #40 kmichael, Feb 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2007
Loading...