Shocking news Re: The Passion of Christ!

Speaking of voodoo demons. Wonder how that meeting with the deacons of that voodoo demon possessed preacher went!

 

diane, since the church allows no questioning of the pastor, and does not want to deal with the rampant witchcraft in the youth (which I know of for certain, having been a Youth Leader and Jr. High Sunday School teacher, and confronted young people directly about it), and does not care what language or obscene images projected on the big screen the pastor uses in hatefully attacking those with sins he is not struggling with...

...I am looking for a new church. Probably Baptist, but will visit Lutheran and perhaps a few others just out of curiosity.

I was not "kicked out" but rather I have "come out from among them." It wasn't the Passion movie issue at all. It was the filthy words and explicit descriptions, plus the refusal to speak against the abomination of witchcraft. They say they will never teach against it.

 

Man you are outta control!

Diane

 

Just a little side note: Jews are not forbidden to touch a dead body. Uncleanness is not forbidden. Uncleanness merely must be dealt with directly by going to the mikvah and by time.

 

And what would that be?

 

Well, I saw the movie this afternoon, and I didn't come out demon possessed.

 

DonnA and Diane---Vaspers is correct---if I came to your hometown---visited with your church---it'd probably take me no less than a week to "pull the covers off" of youth witchcraft---and it would shock you to know who--what---when and where!! Like lesbian and homosexual behaviour among adults---witchcraft(Wiccan garbage, etc.)is more rampant than most will realize!---and I'm not talking about finding some witchcraft at the Passion movie---the devil ain't concerned with that---and I seriously doubt that you could find any sort of witchcraft at the Passion even with a spiritual magnifiying glass---I'm just talking about your average youth in your average school in your average hometown in your average church--be it Southern Baptist, Independant Fundamental, Catholic or whatever denomination---
Brother David

 

Abiyah, they forget the scripture which says...

Luke 23:56
Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

24:1
Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

 

No way, Blackbird. You cannot defend this 'man' to me!

Vapsers has accused his own Baptist preacher of being taken over by a bad demon, a voodoo demon, using vile language and vile pictures from the pulpit. He said a church official became physically violent after watching the movie.... Read his posts. Read All his posts before you associate yourself with this man.

He has recanted numerous things he spoke as fact. He went before the deacons with the charges just today.... more men of God.

The man and his charges have no credibility and he keeps making horrible charges against a man of God not here to defend himself. When we ask for proof of his remarks, he changes his story.

He said the last 12 hours of the life of Christ didn't have enough gospel to save a fly let alone a man.

Diane

 

You need to think about this remark! It was enough for the thief on the cross. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Blackbird I agree with Diane. He spouts any junk to try and make a point of this movie being from satan. If he has to recant, then that shows he is not beyond having to lie about it to make his point. If the movie is that bad it will show itself without lies.
And as for the witchcraft, I still want to know exactly what he is talking about. Exactly what are youth doing that is witchcraft.

 

I never said this film is from satan.

And yes I did withdraw a comment or two, not because I had lied, but because what I thought was well-documented at first, I had second thoughts about and felt they weren't established enough to proclaim. It's called "etiquette of debate."

Some people think "Weapons of Mass Destruction" claim was a little rash and possibly not well-documented, but we don't accuse Colin Powell or President Bush of lying and deceiving us, do we? I sure hope not. Things like this happen often in the heat of debate and quest for truth.

Why should I explain what rampant witchcraft amongst the youth group means? If you got it going on in your church, you know exactly what it is. If I give concrete specific examples of it, you'd probably argue, "That's harmless dabbling in fantasy," or something similar.

Say what you want about me. When we all get to heaven, I'm sure we'll look back on these heated debates (which I pray are also generating some light) and have a lot of laughs and funny stories: "I was so upset...you made me chuckle so heartily...I was so happy when you said...you sure told it like it was...you sure got me thinking...you made me so mad...etc. etc."

Ah, brothers and sisters, what a glorious life we have to look forward to--to be with Him!

 

All I can say then is, if I am supose to know it when I see it, it must not be happening in our church.

 

donnA, I join you in thanking God it is not happening in your church. Bless you my sister.

 

Vaspers, with regard to questioning your Pastor, you have every right to do so. But, to bring charges against him, the Bible states that you need two or three witnesses to be received.

As for your assertions about the "Passion", I can certainly vouch for you that Mary did indeed touch and hold the body after his death. She first went to the cross and held and kissed his feet as the Roman guard pierced his side and "water" spewed everywhere and all over everyone. Once Jesus was taken down from the cross, Mary did indeed hold his upper body in her lap, as is frequently shown in Renaissance artwork. In fact, it looked like they were posing for a picture as they all stared at the camera.

The thing that really struck me as being rather "Catholic" about the movie was that, in several scenes, Jesus appears to be giving up the fight. He just lies down and begins to quit...until he looks over to Mary, and somehow he miraculously draws strength from looking at her. This happens several times in the last scenes of the movie...such as when she runs out to where he has fallen in the alley and has to help him up.

Didn't get the whole satan carrying the ugly baby thing while they were whipping Christ. Biblical?

Also, yes Mary...and other Mary, did indeed wipe up the splattered blood from the ground where Jesus had been whipped.

All in all I think it was a fairly good adaptation of what went on, except that it did not fully demonstrate exactly what did happen on the cross. The seemless scene never even feined that there were 3 hrs. of darkness. It was joined together in such a way to seem like it was only 10 mins. or so on the cross. The scene could have been done better, IMO.

Also, when the entire temple is broken in half(where is that scripture?), the chief priests seem to "realize" that they have indeed killed the Son of God. Did they actually repent?

None of the Roman guards ever acknowledged that he was indeed the Son of God.

As I said, it is a pretty good movie, but it should not be taken as scripture. I also don't really think it deserves all of the bashing that the film is getting.

Funniest thing I heard Mel say in his interview was that God foreordains everything, which means that He also made Mel's bed that morning. I wish He would make mine too.

 

I shared with our folks on Wed. night, after our Bible study, that I have not seen the movie and do not plan to. I firmly do not believe that Christians should be attending the movie houses.
Yet, I expressed the fact that the movie will get folks to talking; at work; school; among family & friends etc. That will give us an open door to share Christ with folks.

I do not see thousands - millions etc. getting saved by watching this movie....
I do not believe it is an out reach to win folks ...
I do think that it will give us opportunity to share what Christ has done for us when we got saved. etc.

Just like when 9-11 happened; earthquakes etc. & the such .... it gets folks to thinking and to talking and that is where we can listen and then tell them about the Christ of the Bible .... simply ... the plan of salvation.


Should Bible-believing Christians support the movie The Passion of The Christ?

Is it The best evangelical opportunity we’ve had since the death of Christ, as has been proclaimed by so many evangelical preachers?

Some Observations/Objections:

1. The Movie’s Origin & Medium

· It is a Roman Catholic movie – represents a very different doctrine of salvation

· Its stated purposes are to increase Catholic Conversions & Devotion

· Gibson, a conservative dedicated Catholic, It reflects my beliefs

· Pope, It is as it was

· Daily mass was held on the set during filming & resulted in many conversions to
Catholicism

· Yet, it has been called a new & better way to spread the gospel by many
evangelicals

· A popular evangelical preacher: People don’t interact with the lecture on Sunday
morning anymore—modern day techniques are needed to communicate the Bible

What does the Bible say about our responsibility as preachers?

2 Tim. 4.2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

· We must preach the Word—this cannot be replaced by any other medium

· 1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

· It is a sad day indeed when Bible-believing Christians turn to Hollywood and Roman Catholicism to help evangelize a lost world

2. The Script of the Movie

· Said to have been Based entirely on gospel of John — yet, has much extra-
BIBLE dialogue

· If it is an evangelical tool, it should not contain anything not recorded in Bible, or
would be confusing to the seeker

· Languages of Latin & Aramaic are said to give it a feel of authenticity

· BUT, language of Jesus day w/ Hebrew & Greek

· Latin & Aramaic were used for theological reasons: to urge a return to 16th
Century Latin Mass

· Gibson, I wanted to combine the sacrifice of cross with the sacrifice of altar
(Catholic Mass) and languages are part of this for me

This brings us to the theology of the movie:

3. Theology

· Gibson, This movie reflects my beliefs like nothing I’ve ever done before (the
traditional Catholic Latin Mass)

· Basic Catholic belief is that the intense physical suffering of Christ is the most important part of the crucifixion, thus the heavy violence in the movie

· Christian theology places primary importance on Redemption through the Propitiation of the blood of Christ — the blood sacrifice paying for our redemption ONCE FOR ALL

· In Catholic theology—the suffering is repeated constantly—in the Mass, Christ is crucified over and over again (displayed in the crucifix and Catholic icons)

· Catholic theology of salvation is totally dolorous (grief, sorrow, dismal) The emphasis is on physical agony of Christ and is repeated in all the masses, prayers & devotions - again, therefore the movie is very graphically violent

· Paul said, I glory in the cross because of its redemptive power and victory over sin and the grave - Resurrection is the focus, not suffering

· Christ did certainly suffer the agony of the beatings & crucifixion, but those pains are not to be compared with His suffering by becoming SIN for me.

Some Closing Notes

1. The film is not designed to bring people to saving faith in Christ, but for
entertainment & to promote Catholic theology

2. The film is given to express the faith of dedicated conservative Catholic (Mel Gibson) & bring people in touch again with sacrifice of the altar in the Catholic Mass

3. The film has a good deal of artistic additions, so should not be considered totally faithful to gospel account

4. If anything, the film portrays the great NEED for salvation (my sin did crucify Christ)

5. We must follow up with those who are seeing it and give them the complete gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which includes: Repentance & Faith in the shed blood (not in the physical suffering) of the Lord Jesus Christ.

6. God did use pagan kings in OT to do His work (used a donkey once, too) and, if He so chooses, God can use Mel Gibson and a Hollywood film to bring attention to His Son (as unlikely as it may seem)

7. Sadly, there is a great danger that Christians may now make a habit of going to a theatre for their theology & inspiration (Gibson speaks of other follow-up movies about the Bible) and they may become numb or lethargic to the preaching of the cross by a Spirit-filled preacher.

Will I go see the movie?

No — I think I’ll stay home & read The Book & pray the God will open doors to reach some of the lost people who will see it. May God help us to seize the opportunity to witness for Him these next few weeks while millions are watching a portrayal of our Savior's love for them. To God be the Glory!


Charles Bonner
Pastor
Bible Baptist Church
Selah, Wa. 98942
BIBLE BAPTIST CHURCH SELAH, WA.

Annual "Soul Winning" Conference
Where: Bible Baptist Church of Selah, Washington
Dates: March 9-10-11, 2004. (Tues. - Wed. - Thurs.)

 

To the original post:

This movie is not The Bible. It is an adaptation of the crucifixion event. Some things will be left out and many things are added in.

Why do we always show the WISE MEN at the manger in Christmas dramas?

 

Behold: we must be wary of what is added and what is subtracted from God's Word...

...whether it's done in a film...or a sermon...or a seminar...or a book...or a church...whatever.

The world is stupid. We must hold the Bible high and proclaim what is truth and what is heresy, what is good and what is sin, what is a servant leader and what is a dictatorial arrogant cult leader.

God save the Church!!!

 

Now, when you say that we should "hold the Bible high and proclaim what is truth", does this include making idiotic claims about people becoming demon possessed and practicing voodoo because of the movie?