1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Should Christians Judge Outside the Church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Zaac, Sep 19, 2013.

Top Posters
Page 2 of 4
  1. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    And I challenge you or anyone of the several to show one instance where I have defended the sinful deeds of gays, straights, Presidents, kings or demons.

    Now for sure you've heard me say that their sins aren't any worse than our own. But I'll just wait for you to get your compilation together of me defending their sin.

    I think you and a lot of folks think I'm defending the President and gays just because I point out that they aren't doing anything that the folks on this board ain't doing.

    No thank you. I bought this u-tube just for you today. See how shiny and new it looks?:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #21 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
  2. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well, Paul judged them in Romans 1, and they were outside the church, and he obviously judged them via the Gospel preached and some were saved into the church as per 1 Cor. 6.

    Yes sinners need the Gospel, which in itself is judging the lost.

    The church judges both those within and without via the preaching of the Gospel and church discipline.

    Your assessment is wrong and unscriptural. How long have you adopted the PC gospel?
     
    #22 preacher4truth, Sep 19, 2013
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus Himself, thru the Epistles of paul, has already judged behaviour sucha s active Homesexuality, perversions in sexuality, adultery, fornication, and He requires the Church to address those issues within the church body, to NOT have approval for them, but he also has condemned those practices out in the world, and we have the Commissiontotell them that they are sinners who jesus died to set free from their bondages!

    The Body of Christ has the moral platform from god to adress social sins, as we have the standard in the bible by which they are judged by, and the saviour to save them out from those sins!

    The Church helped abolishslavery in England and the US, should we have kept quiet on that, as was "outside the Church?"
     
    #23 Yeshua1, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  4. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well, at least one other person gets it.
     
    #24 preacher4truth, Sep 19, 2013
  5. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    Absolutely correct.:applause: But we inside the Church seem to keep allowing the media and those who are doing these things frame the conversation and we end up doing what Scripture directs us to not do.

    The media is really good about trying to make it look like we, the Church, came to an agreement that certain things are wrong as opposed to us making it clear "Thus sayeth the Lord".
     
    #25 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Should Christians be public in their opinions regarding the activities and policies of a President who for some time beenrunning as the "Christian President?"

    Doesn't it mean anyhting to you that MANY Pastors have accepted him and all of his policies JUST due to Him being Black and professed Christian?
     
    #26 Yeshua1, Sep 19, 2013
  7. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    Absolutely. But somewhere along the way, and your incessant going on about homosexual everything is testimony, the church has become known as a condemner of those who commit certain sins.

    When is the last time you've seen anyone in the church stand up before lost gay people and say God is calling you to repentance of all your sins instead of them always hearing about the church's focus on this one singular sin in their lives?

    You have the moral platform to correct INSIDE the church. Outside the Church you are to preach the Gospel.

    The people in the Church in England and in the United States were heavily involved in owning slaves. So they should have helped abolish it since they were doing wrong.
     
    #27 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
  8. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    If you believe him to be a Christian then speak to the errancy of his policies from a Biblical point of view.

    But folks want to say there's no way he's a Christian out one side of their mouths while attacking what he, as a nonChristian should be doing.

    Pick one. Either treat him as a brother in Christ and deal with his policies, or stop judging him if you believe him to be outside the church.

    You mean like many pastors accepting Mitt Romney and all of his policies just due to him being a white Republican and a professed sharer of the same values?

    I could care less why a pastor would align himself with wickedness. But it should definitely be pointed out as such and the pastor dealt with as one within the church.
     
    #28 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
    #29 JonC, Sep 19, 2013
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I disagree. Sin was sin before Paul wrote one single epistle. Again, we stand opposed to sin but to the sinner we preach the gospel. Does that include repentance? Of course it does. But there is a difference in sharing the gospel with the lost and just trying to instill a sense of Christian morality in the lost. Too often, IMHO, we go about it in an unbiblical fashion.
     
    #30 JonC, Sep 19, 2013
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My problem with churches who believe that they are to “judge the world,” beyond the lack of Scripture supporting such a position, is that it seems that what they want to do is create a “Christian”…or godly culture. If successful, these churches would reform culture into a society of lost people who have the appearance of righteousness – which I believe accomplishes nothing. Although it has been stated here that the Church is to judge the world as evidenced by Jesus through the Epistles of Paul, actual Scripture has not been offered.

    The New Testament does not present the Church as striving to redeem the world, or even a culture – instead it presents the Church as separate but in the world. We are to be a light in the darkness.

    Although I know that it can be argued that the body of Christ has the moral platform from God to address social sins, I find it ironic that the apostles and the New Testament church never actually addressed social sins but addressed sin within the body of Christ. If this is the role of the Church, it was oddly quiet about correcting the social sins of Rome (except, of course, when applied to the children of God). It seemed to expect sinners to sin but the redeemed to strive for holiness.

    What I would like is a list of passages that specifically states that we are to judge the world, that we are to “moralize” our culture. The reason is that I have already listed three that appear to say the opposite – two specifically and one implied (that Jesus came not to judge as the world is already condemned). If I am wrong I would like to know through Scripture and not some underlying theme someone believes exists or some moral platform someone infers from the Bible. I admit that I may be mistaken, but I provided Scripture to support what I believe. I am open to being corrected via Scripture.
     
    #31 JonC, Sep 19, 2013
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have never adopted the PC gospel. It is wrong of you to assert such – just as wrong as it would be of me to assert that you have adopted a “romish” understanding of the church by placing the worldly society under its umbrella. Not only is your assertion unwarranted (you infer from my comments what was far from being implied), but it is offensive.

    Passage please. 1 Cor. 6 (The saints will judge the world – and the angels) doesn’t cut it – that would be taking the passage out of context. Neither does Romans chapter 1 (I guess you’re talking about the consequences of unbelief?).
     
    #32 JonC, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  13. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    I absolutely agree. We become so dead set on convincing them that one particular sin is a sin that we lose sight that the purpose is to lovingly point them toward Jesus Christ and repentance of ALL their sins. That's what preaching the Gospel is supposed to lead them too.

    But in the instances of the church speaking about, for instance homosexual sin or abortion, I have yet to hear anybody say "Yes these things are sinful, BUT God wants you to confess and repent of ALL of your sins and be saved".

    When we focus on one sin, it comes across as unlovingly judgmental because it is. If there was real concern about their eternity, we'd be preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them instead of harping on and on about a singular issue.
     
    #33 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are commanded to preach that Jesus died to save sinners such as them, and as us, but also that if they refuse Him, they will be judged for that sinful behaviour and practices...

    You seem to want to have meek and mild loving jesus, but He is also the God who destroyed Sodom for its grave sinning, and who will be returning as coming King/Judge, dealing out retribution to them who refuse to heed the Gospel message...

    and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire,

    2Th 1:8
    rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus:

    2Th 1:9
    who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    2Th 1:10
    when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be marvelled at in all them that believed (because our testimony unto you was believed) in that day.

    Asv

    Shouldn't we be telling them BOTH messages?
     
    #34 Yeshua1, Sep 20, 2013
  15. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then, with due respect, Brother, you haven't been paying attention. That is exactly my stance, and I know others on this board who say the same thing.

    Too often we envision judgment as harsh, condescending and almost rude. Obviously it shouldn't be those things, and quite frankly, with exceptions, it usually isn't. Those who claim "we can't judge" don't understand that judgment is done in kindness, love, and a sharing of the gospel.
     
    #35 thisnumbersdisconnected, Sep 20, 2013
  16. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    TND, I wasn't particularly talking about on the board for this instance. I mean across the board, when you look at how the church has come to be known on these two issues, it's always just about those two issues and not about repentance unto salvation.
     
    #36 Zaac, Sep 20, 2013
  17. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    You SEEM to have me confused with someone else if you think there's anything meek and mild about the Jesus I preach weekly about. :laugh:


    Who said to not tell them both messages? Tell them both messages about ALL sin, and not just the churches pet sins.
     
    #37 Zaac, Sep 20, 2013
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    . . . or the racists, the KKK, or segregationists, or slave owners, etc.
     
    #38 Aaron, Sep 20, 2013
  19. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    222
    Yep, unless they are in the church.
     
    #39 Zaac, Sep 20, 2013
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    problem is that satan is smart, as he attacks the body thru the pastors, as he has many toeing His line now for gay rights/marriage/abortion/supporting liberal policies , supporting inter faith dialog, preaching a less than jesus and Gospel!
     
    #40 Yeshua1, Sep 20, 2013
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 4
Loading...