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Featured Should KJVO be called a cult?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by robycop3, May 25, 2014.

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  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    OK, but didn't they both use the TR Greek text for their translations? That is the same text behind the KJB.

    The Reformation was not exactly a revival, more like a revolution against the Catholic church, but if you want to redefine it, OK.
     
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I don't know of any church that prohibits it's members from using other versions if that's what they want to do, though they might prohibit a sermon or class to be taught in church from another version. What's wrong with that? I am sure that many churches that use the NIV or ESV might do the same.

    Amazing isn't it? What does that tell you about these versions? Why is it that no one believes they are correct?

    OK, that was a long time ago in England, how does that relate to hundreds, if not thousands of Baptist churches who CHOOSE to use the KJB only today?

    Why is it that only the KJB causes people to believe it is correct? Can you explain that?
     
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You are mistaken and misinformed. You evidently have never examined an actual Oxford edition of the KJV that was printed in 1769. I pointed out a number of differences between the 1769 and present KJV's in a post on the second page of this thread.

    Most present KJV editions are based on the 1769 Oxford edition, but they are not the 1769 edition, having around 400 changes from it. Some present KJV editions are based on the 1873 Cambridge edition edited by Scrivener, and a few are based on the 2005 Cambridge edition edited by David Norton.

    There are thirty or more varying editions of the KJV in print today. In 2011, Cambridge University Press was printing at least six varying editions of the KJV.


    The original text for the KJV prepared by the KJV translators whether handwritten or a printed edition of the 1602 Bishops' Bible with all their changes handwritten on it is no longer known to exist.

    The makers of the KJV had been given unbound copies of the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible as their starting point, and at least one of those copies with some handwritten changes made by the KJV translators has been found.

    All the edits or changes made to the 1611 edition of the KJV were not merely "spelling and punctuation."

    The 1611 KJV was revised in the 1616 London edition, in the 1629 Cambridge edition, in the 1638 Cambridge edition, in the 1660 London edition, in the 1743 Cambridge edition, in the 1762 Cambridge edition, in the 1769 Oxford edition, in the 1817 Cambridge edition, in the 1829 Oxford edition, in other Cambridge and Oxford editions in the 1800's, in the 1850's American Bible Society edition, in the 1873 Cambridge edition, in the 2005 Cambridge edition, etc.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And they are all perfect --even though they differ with one another. Doncha' know there are 30 forms of perfection? As long as each edition is known as KJV each one is perfect with no mistakes whatsoever.


    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh
     
  5. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Does every thread that mentions the KJV have to turn into a brand new debate?
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Well, when error-filled posts rear their ugly heads they have to be met head-on.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The most ardent supporters of the Kjv have cultic behaviors, as they have elevated the Kjv bible to a place/standing that would almost have them worshipping the book, and they also see all other texts and versions as somehow inspired by satan, so yes, would classify the fervent ones in that way!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that those such as gail and Ruckman and others involved in the myth of the Kjv being ONLY version are cultic, if not downright cults, as they almost have a worship of the book!
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The AV 1611 itself proves this premise wrong. It has this marginal note for the 2nd "them" in V7:"Heb. him, I. euery one of them." the premise itself comes straight outta 7TH DAY ADVENTIST Dr. Ben Wilkinson's book, via Ray & Dr. Fuller...the "founding fathers' of the KJVO myth.

    Not when the vast preponderance of evidence is against that interp.

    It's called the "Scriptural manuscripts" that God has preserved for us.

    You don't have to. GOD preserved ALL the ancient Scriptural mss. we have. That's easy!

    Some are factual; others are opinion and guesswork.

    Just like a victim of a fatal disease who keeps visiting various doctors until he finds one who tells him he's NOT fatally ill.

    But you know the first English Bible brought to what's now the USA was the GENEVA BIBLE. And the first "Reformation" Bible was Luther's German Bible.

    That's cuz mosta the MVs haven't existed that long. It was quite a while before the KJV became the #1 English version, and it took the interference of the British govt. to replace the Geneva with the KJV.

    However, the KJV is still the MOST-PRINTED book in history, if not the most-read, even though the KJV's history is short compared to that of the Latin Vulgate.

    And there could yet come more under some other version.

    But can you, or anyone else, PROVE they're supposed to be there?

    The KJV, as are all other English Bible translations, is the product of God's perfect word being handled by imperfect men.

    Now, nothing wrong with using only the KJV, long as one doesn't spread the false KJVO MYTH. Apparently, YOU subscribe to it, as you repeated the false "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie" and said you'd recommend people switch to the KJV.

    I posted the man-made origin of the KJVO myth...derived from a CULT OFFICIAL'S book by two dishonest authors, a myth that's given rise to charlatans such as Ruckman and Riplinger.

    Fact is, GOD IS NOT LIMITED to the KJV nor any other one English version. He keeps His word current in English & the other major languages. Again, nothing wrong with having a "pet" version, but there's plenty wrong with dissing every other version but one's fave. Now, while there ARE bogus and cult-specific versions out there, the TRUE Christian will quickly recognize them.

    Now, while I stated in the OP that KJVO isn't a cult, I don't hesitete to call it a FALSE DOCTRINE, based upon a packa lies and tall tales.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And by the same token, passover isn't Easter, either.
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    There's a point where faith leaves off and guesswork & opinion begins. And the KJVO myth has passed that point by a large measure.

    Not one true Baptist argues otherwise.

    Well, actually, it's the TREE of life. Please check the Greek for yourself.

    That's why GOD chose to preserve well over 5K manuscripts or fragments thereof of His written word. We have those mss. from which to make translations of His word in our languages, and with which to check the accuracy of those translations.

    There's NOTHING in God's written word that limits Him to any one translation in a given language. GOD may present His word to us any way He jolly well chooses. There's simply not the least quark of the slightest implication in Scripture supporting the KJVO myth.

    WE KNOW the MAN-MADE origin of KJVO. However, NO KJVO can show us anything from GOD supporting such an idea.
     
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Aint seen one yet. However, I HAVE seen more than one shingle in fronta a church reading "1611 KJV Only" or similar.



    Of those who support only one given version, only the KJVOs claim their pet is perfect, while ignoring or glossing over its obvious goofs.



    That's cuz their leadership has subscribed to the false KJVO myth, & they've led others into the same fallacy.

    Again, cuz they don't know any better. They bypass such goofs in the KJV as "Easter" in Acts 12;4, or "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10. The "perfection" claim is one of the lies of the KJVO myth.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And even if the sign out front doesn't say 1611 KJV it will at least indicate that the KJV is a primary (if not the central core) doctrine of a local body.

    I think it's a "sign" of a twisted congregation in need of some spiritual overhaul.

    I challenge anyone to find a church that makes a big deal of any modern version so far as to place that version as a distinctive doctrine in a sign in front of an assembly.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    As I said earlier, two "churches" that meet the common definition of "cult" are "paster" Steven Anderson't Faithful Word IFB church of Phoenix, AZ, & Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptict Church of Topeka, KS.

    Among Anderson's goofy anti-everything rhetoric, he claimsta worship the KJV, while there's nothing more to say about Westboro; we all know how apostate it is.

    And yes, a whole cultic industry has grown from the KJVO myth. Rucky & Rippy each have their own camps, along with those of other lesser lights such as Moorman, Bynum, waite, etc. And all their stuff is phony as a Chevy F-150.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    It was certainly a revolution, but most certainly a revival of massive proportions. I am not the only one who believes this.

    "The Reformation was a great revival founded upon the bedrock of Scripture." Brian Schwertley

    "Thus the Reformation itself was a revival..." Roland Lamb

    Those two were Calvinistic quotes. But on the other side there is a work by Elmer L. Towns and Douglas Porter called :"The Ten Greatest Revivals Ever." Chapter 8 deals with the Reformation.
     
  16. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    The other day I saw a bumper sticker which read, "If you ain't saved by the KJV then you ain't saved." Heresy on a bumper sticker and how sad for the KJVO crowd that some come to this heretical conclusion.
     
    #56 sag38, May 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2014
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Thing is, no one is or has ever been saved by the KJV. Only JESUS saves.

    Now, for years, on many discussion groups, and on the internet, I've heard the definitions for many types of KJVOs. Dr. Bob set forth such definitions in this forum. I don't count "KJV-PREFERRED" as KJVOs cuz they recognize other English Bible translations as valid, even though they don't use them but very little, if at all.

    However, the line is drawn when one doesn't believe any other English Bible translation is valid. That's a FALSE belief, derived from a cult official's book. And become too-enthralled with that false doctrine can lead to cultic behavior.

    But, as I said earlier...Being KJVO whatsoever is simply...INCORRECT.
     
  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    So how did people get saved before 1610?


    Does anyone have a valid reference in which a preacher actually has been quoted as saying that a person can only get saved by a KJV?
     
  19. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    The bumper sticker was quite clear. The name of a baptist church, in South East Mississippi, was named on the sticker. I can't remember the name though. Sadly, there are false teachers/preachers out there who advocate this false teaching. To bad the rest of us baptists have to have our identity soiled by this type of foolishness.
     
  20. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    The pastor at my childhood church--repeatedly. Practically no sermon went by without mentioning this, actually.
     
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