Should the snipers be executed?

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Fry them. Both of them. The sooner the better. Assuming of course they are guilty, of which there seems to be no doubt.

Ole Blackbird said it all.

[ October 29, 2002, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]

 

I'm sure glad God is God!

 

Hello Hellen,

I generally usually agree with you on various issues. However, I don't agree with your interpretation of the "wilderness passage" regarding those under the age of 20. I don't believe you can use the passage to determine who is to be subject to the death penalty or not. God had decreed that no one of the "current generation" of Israelites were to enter the Promised Land due to their rebellion and lack of faith to enter and possess the land. Of course, Joshua and Caleb were not held to that because they demonstrated their faith in God. Anyway, God used the age of 20 simply to ensure that every member of the rebellious generation died in the dessert during the 40 years in the wilderness. Note that God did not sentence the rebellious people to death. Everyone dies eventually. God simply did not allow the nation of Israel to enter the Promised Land until that rebellious generation had passed away. I don't believe that that passage can be used to set a standard for who is to be given a "fresh start" and who is not, especially in a debate concerning the death penalty.

[ October 30, 2002, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

14 Blackmen sat in a prison in Illinois on death row. A law student and friends went to work after all legal appeals were over. The student and friends found evidence that all 14 were innocent.

In 1952, in England, a 17 year old lad was hanged by the neck until dead for committing a murder, according to the court. Fifty years later, DNA proved him innocent and an apology was delivered by Royal Post to his family.

In the mid fifties in Canada, a 14 year old boy was sentenced to hang for the murder of a young girl in Clinton, Ontario. The Prime Minister commuted his sentence to life and he was later paroled. He spent the rest of his life raising a family under a new name, but has started to get his name legally cleared. The justice system admitted it made a mistake. He would have hanged when he reached legal age.

Sorry, you can thump the Bible all you want, but you will not convince me that it teaches capital punishment under God. It is a state responsibilty. I would no more pull a switch than I would pull a trigger.

By the way, a major contributor to the Oxford English Dictionary was an American held at Her Majesty's pleasure,,which means criminally insane. He was sane by day and insane by night. He was eventually deported to the USA where he was executed.

John Calvin regretted to his dying day that he had a say in the execution of a man they deemed an heretic.

And please remember, when the rod fails and the child,,child,,,remains incorrigible you are to stone him to death.

If capital punishment must be, then it should be public so that all can watch. It should be the most heinous means imaginable. I just can't conceive of it.

Jim

[ October 30, 2002, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]

 

Hello Jim,

Who would you say it is that ultimately gives the state government its authority? What does the Bible have to say in answer to this question?

I believe that you are absolutely correct in this statement. Actually enforcing the death penalty openly in public following one appeal and giving the criminal the chance to accept Christ as his/her Savior would bring such crime to a near halt. I believe that such public executions would actually become a rare thing.

As to your other comments I would say that it is regrettable that the justice system can and does make such mistakes. However, the responsibility rests with the state and the seriousness of the type of death penalty that I am talking about would drive judges and lawyers to be much more careful and accurate.

[ October 30, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

Jim1999

A big amen to all you stated in your post.

Capital punishment has been so abused in this country and elsewhere, railroading the poor, etc that I feel this country (The US) has no moral right to use it any longer.

As for public executions, in days gone by they drew large crowds and did little to stem the tide of crime.

 

Mr. Hutton wrote:

Amen and amen, Taking a person's life, no matter the circumstance is NOT a matter of frivolity.

 

It is an historical fact that when hangings were public and it was a capital offence to pick pockets, men and boys picked pockets whilst he hanging was going on. Some deterent; some remedy.
Executions have not stopped or even slowed down capital crimes.

On the question of who gave states their authority, I quite agree that they exist under God, and we must render unto them what is theirs.

Did this make the Roman theatre activities acceptable? The fed Christians to the lions, and other nasty events took place for entertainment. The state has a responsibility to behave according to God's laws if it expects God's endorsement.

Cheers,

Jim

PS. I am a sound evangelical, conservative, twice-born believer. I believe the bible is the word of the living God and I believe in God's Word, even the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Word.

 

I agree that w should be very careful to make sure that this does not repeat.

Now, to the case at hand:

1. Mohammed & Malvo were found in a car in possession of the gun that ballistics test conclusively identify as the murder weapon.

2. The car that they were in was modified with a rifle port in the trunk from which to fire.

3. The same men have been traced to murders in Alabama and I think Oregon.

My question to you: do you think that

A) these media reports are false
or
B) these media reports are true but it was all just a coincidence

Obviously we are not the judges, the courts will handle that. I'm just wondering why, for the purposes of the present discussion, you cite uncertainty as a reservation.

 

Then we agree that it is God who, by His ultimate authority, governs the affairs of mankind and that He institutes earthly state governments. Therefore, we are not simply "thumping our Bibles" in this debate because God does command the death penalty for certain crimes. Clearly, God is the ultimate authority from whom state governments gain their authority to carry out the death penalty.

Certainly not. The Roman activities that you reference where carried out in order to fulfill the Pagan Roman lust for the flesh and the destruction thereof. As you said they did these terrible things for entertainment. They were not carrying out justice according to God's standards. They were acting according to human standards. We as Christians are commanded to submit to those whom God has placed in authority over us. We are bound to that command up until the point that those in authority try to make us do something that is contrary to God's revealed will found in the Bible. If such authorities try to force us to be disobedient to God's Word then we must resist them and even, if necessary, work to overthrow them and replace them with a government that honors God's Word.

I agree, and a state enforced death penalty is well within the commands of Scripture (supported by both the O.T. and the N.T. see this same argument in the fundamental forum). Likewise, your quoted statement here supports what I have said above about obeying and/or overthrowing state governments.

[ October 31, 2002, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

Jim1999,

You have shown your compassionate heart here my friend. May God bless you richly my friend. People like yourself have the answers the world needs.

Your Mate Ben W

 

I'm just thinking about a person pondering salvation, and coming here and seeing our love for each other and the world in general, by reading the name of this thread.

Execution of a murderer shouldn't be something we gloat and celebrate about, should it ? If I'm wrong please correct me.

I believe the older one should probably be given the lethal injection, and from what I have seen, concerning the age of the other one, the fact that he was the step-son of the older one, he should be spared. But he should be an old man before he sees freedom.

 

Hello Curtis,

I think that you are correct, the title of this thread is not the best example of how we should be addressing the issue of the death panalty. However, I believe that this is a very applicable deabte and that neither side (pro/con) needs to be ashamed of the positions that are expressed here regarding death penalty. I have tried to be as biblical as I know how and remain gentle in the "heat" of the debate.

 

Hello Ben,

While I understand your compassion I have to disagree with your assertion that such a "great" compassion is the sole and exact answer that the world needs. I am arguing from the standpoint that I treasure the image of God that is found in mankind so much that I am willing to agree with God and the Bible that cold blooded murders cannot, must not, be allowed to continue their existence among those who love God's creation. By committing murder they forfeit their own lives. According to the Bible (as we have discussed on another thread) this is God's decree not mine. I simply must obey Him.

 

I am so glad that the mind of the Lord Jesus is being so well represented here. Since we walk as He walked and have put Him on,then we speak for Him in this world. So,we still hand out judgment because it is our duty,to do otherwise would disobey the Lord. Right? Then I see a flaw in the Lord Jesus's character,He rescued the harlot in John 8 when His Father really wanted her stoned. So now I must go about and demand justice
for the breaking of the other nine,both in your life and in mine. After all,breaking just one makes me guilty of all. Then when we are all through,look around,who do you see still standing?

 

Now that makes sense.
In some very poor countries, like mine (the Philippines), some cops have an unwritten code.
If the culprit is caught in the act, smoking gun and all, victim on the ground, he doesn't even get to the police precinct alive.
If the culprit is not caught in the act, then, yes, he gets his day in court.

 

When God gave that commandment about a woman caught in adultery, He was speaking to Israel as a nation - not to the individual Jew.
The right to take life, outside of war, belongs to the State, not to the citizen.
There was no contradiction between Jesus' action and His Father's command.

 

Amen.

 

In line with comments regarding others reading this thread, the topic phrase has been changed.