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Shouldn't All Christian Fiction Always Include Yahweh as God?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Steven Yeadon, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Below is how I arrived at the title of this thread. I have spent two years thinking on the subject off and on and below are most of my notes on the subject compiled into persuasive piece. I wrote this after watching umpteen Marvel movies and realizing how inimical American culture is to the Christian faith and the need for Christians to get out of unholy fiction, which we seem almost obsessed with, and seek something that is holy.


    Shouldn't All Christian Fiction Always Include Yahweh as God?

    Our God, Yahweh, is the one immutable aspect of existence. We and civilizations and the cosmos can fade, but the creator, Yahweh, never will. Thus, to take Yahweh out of a world is to make God into a part of existence that can be compartmentalized and extracted from reality. A stance that is nonsense.

    Furthermore, if Yahweh is our first love, then why ever extract Him from a story? Isn’t that kind of in the same league as a story about having another woman than your wife?

    Another issue is the very idea of an epic. Most fiction is based almost entirely on pagan epics. Pagan epics are religious documents, called myths, and by basing themselves on Pagan myths, fiction tends to be an exaltation of pagan values and beliefs. Values that are unrighteous and beliefs that are idolatrous.

    The closest thing to a Christian epic has been argued to be the Gospel of Mark. This makes sense if you understand that our war is not against people, flesh and blood, but against enemies in the heavenly realms. We fight them in cosmic ways by doing seemingly un-miraculous things here on Earth. Also, we must understand that the values of the Kingdom are foreign to those of the world. The world wants to win through temporal conquest and the bloodshed of enemies, but God has a very different understanding and conquered sin through the bloodshed of His own Son and faith in His Gospel.

    Another problem is that if people in a fictitious world are sinners to the Law of Christ, then they need the Cross for salvation. Thus, the Cross is immutable in a world where there is sin. Fictional worlds are usually filled with people who mainly have one aim to their life: enjoying life, while living lives lost in sin. For most people in fantasy settings it really is “eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.”

    Additionally, Jesus is Yahweh’s Son and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. You cannot have the Father without the Son and the Spirit. Thus, the Son and Spirit are immutable. They are also our first love. So, again why exclude them at all from a story, as if we can find someone else to take their place?

    Yet another issue is that in the real world of non-make-believe we have some sense of temporal justice through Yahweh as explained to us in the books of the prophets. We have eternal justice on the other side of death and on the other side of Jesus’ return. However, many fictional worlds eschew this understanding and are in fact justice-less when it comes to every individual.

    What of the reward of the righteous? For those of us that put faith in Jesus that changes us for the better from then on. Many stories make people like Christians into the bad guys. While those that make a career of killing others with command or skill are the good guys. What of the reward for those that love God and His Son Jesus Christ? What of the Beatitudes at all?

    Many writers make a counterfeit God to rule a fantastical world. A God that is clearly not Yahweh. Isn't this just a counterfeit that is worshipped? An idol who is blasphemously God for all those in a fictional world?

    Next, there is the issue of the occult. Any supernatural aspect of a fictitious universe will mirror biblical miracles or occult practices that both exist in the real world. Spellcasting and the consulting of spirits or omens is witchcraft, pure and simple. We can go to Deuteronomy for a definition of witchcraft. Most fiction excludes anything like biblical miracles and only uses occult practices explaining them like occultists would in terms of "white and black magics."

    Much fiction assumes the existence of intelligent alien life somewhere out there in the universe. We are told such a vast universe demands aliens due to evolution. The problem is that if God wanted there to be aliens there would be, if He did not want aliens there wouldn’t be. No matter how many stars exist. It simply takes faith in God’s sovereignty to understand this. That said, for those who want aliens, are not the angels alien enough for us, remembering that there are many types of angel? For instance, are Cherubim alien enough for us (Ezekiel 1; Ezekiel 10)?

    Given the mood of the younger generations is one of nihilism and escapism into pagan mythology, the occult, and atheist lies. Given the hatred of Christian morality. Given the general sentiment Christianity is not credible in describing the world and that Yahweh is fiction, shouldn't Christian fiction take Yahweh for granted? If pagans and seculars insert their beliefs into their unholy works shouldn’t Christians relish fiction that assumes our God exists?

    It seems to me that when you take Yahweh out of a fictional setting, as nearly everyone does, you have made a dangerous lie to ensnare others. A setting without Yahweh is scoffing at God, because fools say there is no God. That means it is foolishness to make worlds that make more sense to writers than this one, by taking Yahweh out of it.
     
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Do you have examples of "Christian Fiction" that leaves God out of the story? If you give examples of God not being in the story how/why can you call it Christian Fiction?



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  3. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I realize it is mainly Christian fantasy fiction and the growing amount of pseudoChristian fiction I am referring to. I am sorry for being confusing In the Light.

    Stuff written by self-professed Christians like Wheel of Time, Harry Potter, for those that remember Dragonlance, and I must include Lord of the Rings. The kind of fiction that many in my younger generation adore. Most go onto imbibe incredible amounts of non Christian fantasy fiction from there from the Cthulu Mythos to Game of Thrones.

    Maybe I should write this as more of a warning to avoid writing pseudoChristian stories and the need for Christians to realize what is holy and unholy in fiction, especially for kids.
     
    #3 Steven Yeadon, Jan 18, 2020
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  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I would not consider any of those books to be Christian fiction. The authors might self-identity as Christians but their books are not Christian fiction. Some of those stories might contain Christian themes--repentance, redemption, forgiveness--but without overt mentioning of God or Jesus they can't be considered Christian fiction.

    You previously mentioned the comic superhero stories. How some people may view them as gods and/or saviors. I don't think people think of them as actual real life saviors, I think they can separate fantasy from the real world. But there sure is a lot of superhero stories of late. I think these people are seeking a savior, and they are being offered a pseudo-savior, as you alluded. I can see there is some danger in that, as you point out.

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  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I think I said something I regret. That we couldn't use superhero or nonChristian stories to make points about the Gospel. I regret that because Paul uses the shrine to an unnamed God in Athens. I was wrong.

    I get your point though. Defining Christian works as you define them is fine and takes away the problem. I think what I wrote works well instead, with revision, as a primer on why Christian Fiction needs Yahweh. That would be best.

    Thank you In the Light.
     
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  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    God revealed himself to mankind as YHWH.
    This was God revealing himself to man.

    In a Sci-fi or fantasy world the author has no such constraints.

    In a made up world God might reveal himself to a different (alien) people in another way, with another name.

    C. S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia is a well-know example: Aslan the Lion, Creator, Savior of Narnia and beyond.

    I could dig out names in perhaps a half dozen other lesser known books in other Sci-fi novels if you ask.

    Marvel Comics are not classic Sci fi, it’s like the movie popcorn of books.

    Rob
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I take it you mean fiction like C. S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia (where God was a Aslan) and Ted Dekker's Circle Trilogy (where God was Elyon.).

    I guess it depends on what we call Christian fiction. It is one thing when it illustrates Christianity to the Christian and another when it is supposed to convey Christianity to the lost.

    For example, I could explain Christus Victor to a Christian by having them read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe or by having them read almost any of Dekker's books and discussing themes. But using either as an evangelistic source would be problematic.
     
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  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    That gets me though. To do that assumes we know God well enough to speculate how He reveals Himself. Such fiction should be for the saint who over years has come to know God, but not for the new Christian. People like myself and those in my age group who are relatively young and want to write something "original" right out of the gate. I have a question then for you, how do you close the door to many pseudoChristian ideas like Christian reincarnation?
     
  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    C.S. Lewis’ novels were among the first ones I read as a new Christian.

    The symbolism reinforced my newfound beliefs.

    As many books written for youth, it takes on greater meaning as a person matures in age and in the Christian experience.

    Fiction is NOT God’s revelation.
    It is an author’s imagination used to provoke thought.

    Obviously the books you’ve read provoked thought.
    Perhaps you have just been reading bad books. ???

    Rob
     
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  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Exactly.

    Dekker's books are no longer Christian fiction, IMO. I haven't read him since he started writing general fiction, most of it was horror or fantasy. I think the last book I read by him was the first book in the Circle trilogy. Prior to that he had overt Christian characters and/or direct references to God, prayer, Christ, and salvation.

    In my opinion, a book has to have overtly Christian characters in it and/or a gospel presentation in it to be considered Christian fiction. Weaving the gospel into a fictional story is tricky and not many authors can pull it off. The best way is to have a character live out a Christian testimony and maybe (maybe!) have another character inquire as to the Christian's beliefs.
     
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  11. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    It is important to note though that our communication should always be seasoned for the Lost. Especially when published.

    I was more referring to works by self-professed Christians like Wheel of Time, Harry Potter, and the like.

    To be upfront, the reason I thought on this so much was my own perversion of the faith when writing a set of fantasy stories. I'll put it like this, in coming to think I knew how God would reveal Himself as a new Christian, I shipwrecked my faith partially by assuming I knew God when I didn't.
     
  12. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I almost marooned my faith trying to write Christian fantasy as a new Christian. Despite reading the bible twice, I had no clue Who God is to the point I could ponder alternate worlds with Him. I was also friends with Christians that adored Dragonlance, Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter. My pseudoChristian series of choice was Wheel of Time.

    I think what I wrote works well instead, with revision, as a primer on why Christian Fiction needs Yahweh.

    I will allow that experienced Christians who know God from years of experience know God well enough to imagine Him in alternate worlds. I must also allow allegory like the Pilgrims Progress of course. However, it should be noted these works assume Yahweh, just differently.
     
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The book I'm currently reading is "Flux" by Jeremy Robinson. It's a sci-fi horror story about a company that has created a localized time travel zone in Kentucky. When the machine is turned on it sends out gravity waves that bend space/time and send anybody and any animals inside the zone back in time. About once an hour a new wave hits them and they're sent back further in time.

    As he tries to come to grips with what is happening to him the main character tells of when he was a boy and his widower dad would take him to church at the local SBC. He is reminded of some of the Bible stories he heard and how it applies to his current disjointed situation. He also relates some of the characters from the small Kentucky town he lives in and describes their faith and how the situation they find themselves in is challenging their faith.

    I would not call this book Christian fiction, too many cuss words, but there are several references to Christianity, the Bible, Genesis, evolution, morality, etc. which I found surprising, and most are not denigrating to Christians, again I was surprised.
     
    #13 InTheLight, Jan 18, 2020
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  14. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Sounds rather real worldish, or are you saying the Christian characters are using "too many cuss words"?
     
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    It's real world. The guys that swear the most are the "bad guys". The main character is former Army special forces. I don't recall him cussing, maybe drops the "s" word in inner dialogue. (And I don't consider the "s" word to be cussing, just bad manners if in public.)

    I recall I read another book by this author years ago, "The Didymus Contingency" and I thought perhaps he was a Christan. That book was another time travel storey. I wrote a review years ago after reading it. Posting it here, now:

    The Didymus Contingency, a Review
     
  16. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Even if they don't realize it. From the "Smallville" theme song :

    "Somebody save me...Somebody save me...I'm still waiting for you."
     
  17. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I read a interview on Lexham press.com yesterday and it got me thinking about this thread again.

    Apparently I'm not the only one reading theology and Sci-fi.

    Understanding Deuteronomy with A. J. Culp [Link]
    Deuteronomy can be an intimidating book. However, in Invited to Know God, A. J. Culp invites readers to see the gospel of Jesus in unlikely places. In this interview, we asked Culp to explain how to read Deuteronomy as good news.

    Lexham Press:
    Tell us a little about yourself and the story of how this book came to be.

    A. J. Culp: Years ago, when I was finishing my master’s thesis, I would read some of my favorite fiction in the evenings. At one point I opened C.S. Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia, and, when I reached The Silver Chair, it struck me that one of its scenes echoed Deuteronomy, especially in its emphasis on memory. ...
    Rob
     
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Finished the book last weekend and boy was I surprised. Based on the ending of the book I would say the author is a Christian and the story had a strong Christian plot element to it. I won't spoil it here but if anyone is curious and not planning on reading the book, private message me and I'll explain.


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