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Sign Gifts and Prophecy

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jordan Kurecki, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Apr 26, 2013
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    I have been taught that the gift of prophecy has ceased and is no longer.

    Here is the most popular passage I've seen used to teach that the sign gifts are gone today:

    1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    I have a few concerns with using this passage:

    1. People say when that which is perfect is come, that they are referring to the bible, since it is complete, so that the things in part, prophecies and tongues and knowledge shall cease. my question is how can we conclusively say that the thing which is perfect is the word of God, how do we not know that it isn't the New Heaven and Jerusalem coming to earth in Eternity future? or how do we know it's not speaking of the Kingdom of God? also do we not still have knowledge today? so why is knowledge still here but the sign gifts are not?
    What is the basis for this teaching that the sign gifts have ended?

    2. How can people say this, and then teach that in the end times there are going to be the two prophets in the end times described in the book of revelation?

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
    Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Mar 19, 2012
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    the 2 witnesses are a special case, as many see them as being Moses/Elijah/Enoch coming back per the Lord himself as the witnesses...

    And the office of both the apostle/prophet in the church seems to have ceased after John death, so with the full Bible to us, God does not need to confirm the witness of jesus as messiah,n or that we need utterances for doctrines/practices..