Simple yes or no question...

John 3:16 is clear that God so loved the "world", not that God love some in the world.

The Bible also states in numerous passages that Jesus died for all, not for some.

I disagree that choosing all means not choosing.

 

Russell:
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
What have you seen given here on earth that is comparable to what God has waiting for those that go to heaven....

What profit is it for a man to gain the whole world and yet loose his soul. None, nada, no gain.

You get heaven, and they get what God considers as nothing. Wanna trade with one of those unelected dudes. You call that just, you call that love, trade with one of them. Didn't think so...

The sense of justice in calvinism (not yours) is really warped. It is laughable to say the least...

[ October 31, 2002, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

The understanding of "world" in the context in which that passage was written would have meant Jews and Gentiles in general. It has no bearing on understanding the doctrine of election other than to say that the elect will become believers.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

[ October 31, 2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

John 3:16 is clear that God so loved the "world", not that God love some in the world.

The Bible also states in numerous passages that Jesus died for all, not for some.

I disagree that choosing all means not choosing.</font>[/QUOTE]He doesn't believe it either, he's gropping in the dark; finding nothing.

 

The enjoyments that God has provided on this earth are hardly nothing. I don't know about you but I enjoy lots of things in this life. And that is hardly nothing, and neither does God consider it nothing for He is the One Who gives me good things to enjoy by His grace.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Here ya go - www.mbrem.com/calvinism/commongrace.htm

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Could you please explain why you disagree. By what logic?

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

The understanding of "world" in the context in which that passage was written would have meant Jews and Gentiles in general. It has no bearing on understanding the doctrine of election other than to say that the elect will become believers.

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]Ken.
Hummmmm, Jews and gentiles. Anybody left. Guess "all men" really does mean "all men".

Certaintly does have a bearing on election. Election claims that God only loves the elect. Yet here we have God saying that he loves Jews and Gentiles. Euphemistically called "The world".

My hope is that some day all Calvinist will say, "I'm tired of twisting scripture, i'm just gonna believe what God wrote.... Sorry J.C., sorry C.H.

 

Here ya go - www.mbrem.com/calvinism/commongrace.htm

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]My question is to you. Is it your web site. If not, not interested.... No such thing is scripture as common grace. Your site is predicated on a falsity.

[ October 31, 2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

the unregenerate know only this world, they are unable to receive the things of the Spirit, thus they are able to only view that which is a physical pleasure to them. When God does act effectually upon their wills, then that is different, they come into the understanding of their being placed in heavenly places with Christ Jesus. Until then, they would rather stay in the dark, because their deeds are dark and they don't want anyone to know about it. At best they come to view God and the after life as a popular myth, after all they have heard these things all their lives and have never seen nor felt anything beyond the physical world dominated by lusts of the flesh.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Could you please explain why you disagree. By what logic?

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]Hey, I was just sharing my opinion about what the scriptures read. I'm not gonna change your mind and you're not gonna change mine.

 

The enjoyments that God has provided on this earth are hardly nothing. I don't know about you but I enjoy lots of things in this life. And that is hardly nothing, and neither does God consider it nothing for He is the One Who gives me good things to enjoy by His grace.

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]So, are you ready to make a trade. Before God, are you ready to trade places with those other guys.......

Your answer will tell me if the answer that you gave is an obsuridity.

Yes or no...

 

What are you grabbing for here? Christ traded places with as many as the Father hath given Him, that trade is eternal and is none of our business.

I would say, even if I told you I were willing to trade places with any lost individual, I couldn't.

(and of course I would be lying; so I can't tell you in good conscience that I would want to trade with anyone, not even another elected brother or sister, for this would be coveting their position, I say that truthfully, God knowing my heart)

Scripture records an incident where Paul answered your statement in Romans 9.3.

God Bless you in your walk and service to Him.
Bro. Dallas

 

Romans 9.17 makes alot of debate absurdity.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

As long as you mean what you say, ok. Or did you really mean irresistibly, instead of effectually. Effectually is acceptable, irresistibly is heresy...

Have you always been able to receive spiritual truths, were you ever a "they". Isn't it great, when saying such unplesant and nasty things about other people to be able to call them a "they". Certaintly set's you a cut above, doesn it.

Bro Dallas,
I know that this is not what you mean, and i do not believe that it is what you feel: Yet I refrence it only to show just how callous calvinist rethoric really is. How does it feel to know that in order to praise God, even if in rethoric only, all the other people in the world have to become a "they".

Do you know that you cannot say a single thing good about a major portion of creation without violating your theology. There is "us", and there is "them". Why do you wonder why others oppose you so bitterly.

Yet, to hell with "them", God is on the side of "us".

 

I guess you weren't sincere in your joining the "Join Me in This Prayer" thread.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Before God, Bro Dallas; make the claim that Paul made. Make it for your family, your children. But let me hear you make it sincerly.

This is interesting....

 

I guess you weren't sincere in your joining the "Join Me in This Prayer" thread.

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]Still guessing...

 

God would be perfectly just if he had never saved anyone.
God would be perfectly just if he only saved one.
God would be perfectly just if he never saved another one.
Praise God in his grace he has chosen to justify many!