sin and the sinner

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

Psalm 5:5 is a good verse to begin with. Also, does not Scripture speak of how God hates the workers of iniquity and violence? Is someone going to say that when Jesus called the Pharisees vipers and sepulchres that He really just hated what they did? How do you separate a person and his actions?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brutus:
No one ought to conclude that because God's love is universally extended to all that God therefore loves everyone equally.The fact that God loves every man and woman does not mean that He loves all alike,Rom.9:13.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was doing pretty well with this thread until this statement. This seems to contradict the earlier position that God does NOT love the sinner. I don't remember seeing anyone write anything about "loving all alike" yet.

Either He loves the sinner, or He doesn't. What is the verdict?

 

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

"You cannot seperate the sin from the sinner."

Why not? perhaps a better word would be "identify" rather than "separate". You can certainly identify sinful behavior - and hate that same behavior, without hating the person. Mrs. Glory Bound will do things I hate sometimes, but I don't hate her!


"God HATES people that do evil, and of course the scriptures are full of examples, which I am not going to take the time and effort to look up."

Well, then that means that God hates everyone, doesn't it? I mean - we all sin.

I have understood for years that sin is sin, and one transgression is just as much sin as another.

Why did God ever send Jesus to die on the cross for a bunch of sinners who He hated?

 

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

There is a difference between the penalty for sinning and the love of God. I don't see that sin must exclude love.

As I said in my last post, my wife may do things I don't like - even sin. But I still love her. I don't approve of the behavior, though. Isn't that the principle of "hating the sin, loving the sinner?"

"Believe me, God does not love the people who are in hell."

But did He love them before they went to Hell?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brutus:
If God hated only sin and not the sinner,He would strip away the sin and redeem the sinner,rather than casting the whole person into hell,Mt.5:29;10:28.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think God loved us - while we were still sinners . . . and I'm glad he did!

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

Glory bound first of all I would like to know where you got your doctrine? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Believe me, God does not love the people who are in hell."
But did He love them before they went to Hell? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently you are in error of the word of God. I have loved thee with an everlasting love and with loving kindness have I drawn thee. If they went to Hell he never loved them and the scriptures proves it. They never loved him and he never loved them. They hate him with an everlasting hatred and there is no iota of a spark of love between God or them. Point of fact God hates them as much as he does Satan because Satan is their Father... This is impossible but here is a point to consider... If a child of Satan ever found himself in glory it would be worse than being in hell because then he would have to see constantly the one he intensely hates... Just my thoughts... Brother Glen

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tyndale1946:
Glory bound first of all I would like to know where you got your doctrine?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, as for my comments, I included a verse from Romans:

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

It seems to me, that if it's true that God hates all sinners - then this verse is in error. It clearly states that God loved us WHILE we were sinners.

Now, if the verse is to be taken as it is worded, then God does love sinners. Unless you want to qualify that by saying He only loves certain sinners - and even that disproves the concept that God hates all sinners.

So I guess you could say that's where I got my doctrine - Romans 5:8.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you understand that being a sinner is a condition instead of an act that is easy to understand. We are all sinners and you can believe that or not and being a sinner is our nature. Its what you are. Not what you do. The wages of sin is death and we all die.

When Christ died on the cross his sacrifice embraced those of the past, present and future and only his elect. Those who the Father gave him in eternity and only those and none else. Remember his elect are a large number that no man can number.
Christ says I came down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Fathers will that has sent me of all the Father has given me I should lose nothing but raise it up again at the last day... Brother Glen

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

Glory Bound hit the nail on the head. The Scriptures say what they say.

Now, just because in our finite, fleshly, vain imaginations we cannot reconcile God's love with His justice doesn't invalidate His love in some cases.

God is love.