Featured SIN DOES NOT SEND MAN TO HELL....Bear With Me...lol

This is not correct, the age of accountability is absolutely shown in scripture.

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

When the children of Israel sinned in the wilderness, God swore they would not enter the Promised Land. All the adults (except Caleb and Joshua and their family who did not sin) died in the wilderness. However, God did not punish the children of these disobedient parents, because they did not know between good and evil in that day they sinned.

This absolutely shows an age of accountability.

Jon 4:9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

God had a little discussion here with Jonah. Jonah was upset because the gourd that gave him shadow withered. God asked Jonah if it was proper to be angry for a gourd which he did not make or cause to grow. Jonah answered Yes.

Then God answered, "And SHOULD NOT I spare Nineveh?" where there were 120,000 little children who cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand and much cattle?

When God asked Jonah "should not I spare Nineveh?" God was asking Jonah if it was JUST to spare Nineveh. God implies he made these children and made them grow. They were just as innocent as the cattle who lived there.

So, the age of accountability is definitely shown in scripture, though it probably gets little attention in Reformed circles.

 

Two Different Things

Win....Adam's sin led to the downfall of our entire race...call it what you wish but that is Original, first time, prevalent sin and it is carried from Adam down through the bloodline of the entire human race with the Lord Jesus Christ being the SOLE exception (praise God) to it! That excepted though, guilt and accountability are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS and are solely in the purview of God Himself. He alone enables us to experience guilt,joy,love,etc., and assigns accountability to each of us. He redeems us (or not) as we respond (by the exercise of our God-given wills) to Him (or not). The end result is always the same (and to God Be The Glory) and that is that salvation is of the Lord!

Bro.Greg

 

Sorry, I disagree. Satan, the fallen angels, and Adam and Eve were all declared to be "very good" by God, yet it is clear that Eve had lusts that tempted her in the garden (Gen 3:6). This is what people call a sin nature, the natural lusts of the flesh that tempt us toward sin.

Man is still flesh, and man still has fleshly lusts that tug and pull him toward sin. Jesus had these same lusts, the scriptures say he took on the NATURE of the seed of Abraham (not Adam), that he suffered being tempted, and that he was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.

Having fleshly lusts that tempt us does not make us evil, Jesus had these lusts. It is when we obey these lusts in disobedience to God that we sin.

Eve was tempted, but if she would have walked away she would have committed no sin. Sin is a choice, it is a willful decision to disobey one of God's laws.

Temptation is not sin.

 

Win...I disagree as well. To lump Satan and the fallen angels in with what God called "very good" is a tall assumption considering everyrhing else the testimony of God in His ENTIRE Word has to say about evil and sin.

Also...Eve was not tempted by her FALLEN LUSTS in the garden because she was innocent and thus PURE prior to her "fall". Satan (in the form of the serpent) appealed to her God-given natural (but pure at that point) desires and the Word of God clearly reveals that her failure was in being deceived and that is why God pronounced a curse upon Satan. It was Adam that sealed our doom by making a rebellious CHOICE to follow his wife rather than God and thus we have original sin and the result of it in every person born into this world since.

I will say though that this whole thing may be a matter of semantics...or two sides of the same coin.

Bro.Greg:type:

 

We will have to agree to disagree, the scriptures say Satan was "perfect" in the day he was created.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

As you see, God said Satan was perfect in his ways from the day he was created. God also saw every thing he had made, and that it was very good.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God made Satan, Satan was created, therefore he was very good, because EVERY THING God made was very good.

The scriptures also tell us that EVERY MAN is tempted when he is drawn away of his OWN LUST and enticed. Satan appealed to Eve's natural lusts, but Eve was drawn away of her OWN LUST. This was BEFORE the so-called fall.

Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Eve, like everyone else, was drawn away of her OWN LUST.

This is what people think the sin nature is, our natural fleshly lusts that pull and tug us toward sin. Jesus had these same lusts and was tempted in ALL POINTS AS WE ARE, yet without sin.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus took on the nature of the seed of Abraham (not Adam) and suffered being tempted. He could be "touched" with the "feeling" of our infirmities. He felt the same strong pull and tug of the flesh that we do.

Was Jesus evil? NO. Our nature does not make us evil, being flesh with temptations does not make us evil. In fact, the scriptures say we are blessed when we endure temptation.

Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

The problem is folks cannot distinguish between temptation and sin. What folks call our "sin nature" is really our flesh that tempts us. Temptation is not evil, it is when we obey our fleshly lusts when they cause us to disobey God that we sin.

Man has always been flesh from the beginning, nothing has changed.

 

You pile one error on top of another, Jesus implied that he could sin.

Jhn 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

You would probably not notice it, but Jesus said "if" I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you. The word "if" denotes possibility.

It makes no sense that the Holy Spirit would drive Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted if he could not sin.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

What sense does it make to tempt Jesus if he could not sin? Nonsensical.

You are like so many that parrot what they have been told, yet have never put 10 seconds of serious thought into it. You really should study the scriptures more before you attempt to teach others.

The scriptures say Jesus had to resist sin unto blood.

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

You don't get it, Jesus had to fight and resist temptation. It was not easy, in fact, it was the most difficult thing any man has ever done. Jesus had to defeat sin and the devil as a man.

You need to study man.

 

Uhmmm...!

Win...to reach the conclusions you have drawn about Satan and his angels in the first part of your post you have to ASSUME that he(Satan) and his angels were created in the same time frame as everything else (Gen.1:31) that He(God) made His "very good" statement about. Not so....Satan and his angels and their "fall" from heaven occurred prior to God's Creative work on the earth. I'm not gonna get into the whole Gap Theory thing but regardless of what went on here on this terrestrial ball we live on, Satan and his deceived fallen angels were pre-existent to us and our "parents",Adam and Eve. By the time Eve had her encounter with the serpent in the Garden, Satan was no longer the perfect creation he started off as. When Eve met him he was wicked and fallen at that point. Think it through brother. Go back to Genesis and read it again.
As for Eve...I will agree on one thing...temptation is NOT sin. What I won't agree on is that Eve "lusted". Lust IS sin. Eve had pure desires because she and Adam were created PERFECT. She fell victim to deception when Satan appealed to her natural but pure desires while at the same time HE CHANGED THE WORD OF GOD, saying that "neither shall ye touch it,lest ye die." (Gen.3:3b)...and then deceiving her in vs.4 further by saying something about which she had NO CONCEPT of....death. Eve was created and placed into an environment where the concept or FACT of death did not exist. We have a crafty enemy...deception is his game and he is very good at it. Again...think it through.

Bro.Greg:type:

 

I know all about the Gap Theory, that's why I got rid of my Scofield Bible years ago. I do not believe the Gap Theory.

Regardless of whether a person believes in the Gap Theory, Eze 28:15 says Satan was perfect in all his ways from the day he was created til iniquity was found IN HIM. Satan's sin originated within himself due to pride, I am sure you know all the "I will"s.

I don't mind talking to you brother, you are humble. It's these folks that think they know something that get to me. Not that I know much, but I know a little.

Edit- And LUST is not necessarily sinful. The word translated LUST is the Greek word epithymeō and is used speaking of Jesus himself.

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

The word "desired" here is the same word translated "lust" in other scripture.

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The word "lust" here speaking of lusting after a woman is the same Greek word translated "desired" in Luk 22:15. Look and see for yourself.

Lust is not necessarily wrong, it is what you lust after.

 

A more interesting question...

A more interesting question might be.....several actually:

#1...were Adam and Eve created perfect?
(I say yes)

#2....were they somehow inherently vulnerable in the ignorance (no insult intended) of their innocence?

Just one other "little" point....Notice that they(Adam and Eve) were prevented from being able to eat of the Tree of Life once they had eaten of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil (Gen.2:9,17)lest they become immortal in their fallen state. I love Genesis...it certainly does make one have to THINK!

One last thing....I don't personally believe that Christ either could or would have fallen to Satan's temptations in the wilderness because He was VERY God in "untainted" flesh via the Virgin Birth. He had no earthly bloodline/flesh because He was/is God and had no earthly "father". He was born Perfect, lived Perfect, died Perfect, rose again Perfect,ascended Perfect and at this very time on this very day sits at the right hand of our heavenly Father Perfect AMEN,AMEN & AMEN...and praise God ...He is coming back again PERFECT to get us soon...VERY SOON I hope..Amen?!
That said, although Christ is sometimes referred to as the second or last Adam,I think that is where the comparison stops between Adam and Christ because Adam was a "created" man and Christ is THE Creator/man..Amen?

I think that'll PREACH!!

Bro.Greg:thumbs::type:

 

Depends on what you mean by perfect? No one is perfect except God, God cannot create himself. Adam and Eve were "very good", they were without sin. But no one can be perfect except God, if you were perfect you would be God. Does that make sense?

Eve was naive, the scriptures say she was deceived. Adam was not deceived, he sinned knowingly.

Yes, but this proves sin does not cause physical death, otherwise it would not matter if they ate of the tree of life, they were sinners, they would die. No??

Bet you never thought of that did you?

So, you see, their sin caused spiritual death, not physical. Now go back and read Romans 5.

Well, Jesus did not sin, he conquered death and the devil. But I think it nonsensical for the Spirit to drive Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil if he could not sin. What would be the point?

And God does not do pointless or meaningless things. :thumbs:

I also believe that Jesus implied he could sin in John 8:55. Jesus said IF he should deny that he knows the Father, he would be a liar like the people he was speaking to. The word "if" denotes possibility. If Jesus was utterly unable to sin, I believe he would have said so directly. I do not believe Jesus would imply he could sin if he could not, Jesus was not misleading.

What is amazing is that after thousands of years folks cannot get past the story in the garden, and this is where most of the differences between various denominations comes from.

 

Interesting Post..

Win...that was an interesting post and I enjoyed reading it. I'm not sure I would "precisely" agree with you on everything but it was thought-provoking.
I will say this though...I do agree with you that God NEVER does things that are as you said, "pointless and meaningless". I do believe that EVERYTHING that Christ did from the cradle in the manger to the tomb that he arose from...and beyond had a meaning and a point. He confirmed that Himself when He told John the Baptist "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." in Matt.4:15. Everything He did during His earthly sojourne was done in light of His imminent qualification as the one and ONLY perfect sacrifice for sin...the "Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29) This much is definitely true regardless of whatever else we could debate. Amen?raying:

Bro.Greg:thumbs:

 

This thread will be closed as a duplicate thread is found in the Other Christian Religions Forum.