Sinner's Prayer and the PC Movement

Faith in Christ.

 

But, that still doesn't put baptism of the Spirit under our control. It is still not something we have any control over as to when, where, etc.

 

Well, I have not read all the posts but snippets and find some to be pretty puzzling or disappointing, with one stating he has never liked the "sinners prayer". I would whole heartily disagree with that statement and the following, as such is in the Bible.

In fact, such a prayer is found in the Bible, which the "sinners prayer" implicitly follows.


Romans 10

Our most cherished passage as spoken by Jesus; John 3:16

The Sinners Prayer:

Therefore, some of the posts in this thread are not Biblical and tend to be misleading. The "sinners prayer" implicitly states one should believe in what they are confessing. The purpose of the prayer is it is concise in showing how one goes about getting saved or re-affirms their salvation.

This is important because some religions often cast or cause doubt as to a persons salvation. I saw this often growing up. As confessing believers would doubt their salvation because they were not living a purely righteous life, as taught by their preachers/churches. Something which no man is capable of and is also not Biblical as "all" are but "dirty rags" in Gods eye's and fall short of His glory. Otherwise Ephesians 2 suffices

Jesus emphatically states in Matthew 10:32

It is obvious most who would pray such a prayer would only do so if they already had some sort of faith in God or Jesus. This is not to say they necessarily have a clear or perfect understanding. I would not claim one gains salvation by simply reciting the prayer absent faith; however, such could be argued given Matt 10:32. Again, Jesus emphatically states "whosoever therefore shall confess me, him will I confess before my Father".
The prayer also asks God to come into their life to be their personal Lord and Savior. Even if you did not agree one necessarily gains salvation through that prayer is does ask God to come into and work in their life. This is the opportunity for the Holy Spirit to call them properly to salvation, if you do not agree they are already saved.

Jesus assures us in Matt 7:7

Not only is the prayer good but it is most assuredly Biblical and especially concise in reassuring one's salvation.



Lastly and to take up another issue. Jesus taught us to pray and He did not state such was unnecessary once salvation is gained. In fact, His example and standard was for those who already were saved. Otherwise, go back to "Ask and it shall be given....."

Matt 6:5

To say those who are already saved need not ask for forgiveness, or even pray, is not Biblical and indeed goes against the model prayer as Jesus gave us Himself.

In God, Take care
Ralph

:wavey:

 

I actually believe the person is saved before they pray...

In order to pray, you have to have the faith that God is hearing you...
You have to have already believed, and repented to tell God you believe and repent...

So the "sinners prayer" is really not....
It is the first prayer a saint makes.

 

Do you believe that man can be saved when he is in rebellion against God?
MB

 

Hello Tom,

Well, these are all excellent questions but my point was a simple one in regards to the "sinners prayer". As I am not a theologian and do not know what the Positive Confession movement is I cannot address that. I apologize for any confusion.

1) My main point was that the sinners prayer acts to reaffirm one's salvation! This is important because to have personal assurance in Christ is important, correct? Otherwise some may live their life apprehensively not knowing for sure of their salvation. I had several friends who believed at times they were going to hell because of their actions, if they should die at that very moment. This as their pastor and Church taught them or had confused them even though they knew and accepted Christ as their Savior.

2) I am not arguing the simple recitation of the prayer, minus any faith in the existence of God or Jesus, could gain a persons salvation. IE; an unbeliever reciting it. That scenario is unlikely though as most who would recite such surely would have some sort of faith in God and Jesus already. Therefore the prayer gives a better understanding of exactly how one gains salvation. Which is through the faith and shed blood of Jesus alone; and not of any "works" nor in conjunction with such. The prayer could help to clarify and thus possibly bring some to salvation, who otherwise believe that is only gained through "works" and not Jesus.

3) It is arguable even an unbeliever can be brought to salvation by simply reciting the sinners prayer. Because in the prayer the person asks God to come into and work in their life. This is an invitation for God to work in their life and I am sure if He should do such, He would insure they gain their salvation. Matt 7:7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you;"

I took issue with some making the statement of dislike for such a good prayer. I have prayed such a prayer many times silently because I like it and I think Jesus appreciates it.


In answering some specific questions you asked.



quote by Tom Butler

No, praying the prayer per say is not necessary for salvation. I say "per say" because when you truly come to salvation does not Jesus recognize such as the prayer within your heart?

I am unsure what you mean by the prayer I "devised". I googled "sinners prayer" and then posted it. It is very similar to most I have ever read and follows scripture or at least is not scripturally incorrect.

Can you gain salvation by simply confessing Christ and believing He rose from the Dead? Yes! Though I should clarify as your question leaves a few voids. You gain salvation by accepting Christ, the Son of God, as your Savior. By accepting(understanding/believing) in Christ as your Savior your sin debt is forgiven through His sacarfice at Calvary.

Does one only gain salvation upon an open confession of this faith? I do not believe so. Because your faith and commitment is not to men but to Christ and He alone knows your heart. The open confession is an good act and statement of your faith in Christ however. Many say you must come to the altar for such but truly any time you share, profess, or even show your faith to anyone you do so openly for Christ. The fact you are in the pew at your Church is a public confession of faith in Christ, for you as a Chrsitian, is is not?


take care, God Bless
Ralph

 

This is what I have always thought, too. Once it is realized in the heart that one wants to "invite Jesus into their heart", they are justified at that moment. I like how you stated it is the first prayer a saint makes :thumbs:

 

According to your interpretation of the verse you quoted, speech is neessary for salvation. how are 'dumb' people saved?

My point is that you did not find a 'sinner's prayer in the Bible. Why did Jesus never lead someone in a 'sinner's prayer'? Nor Paul? Nor __________?
BTW, I reaffirm that I have no problem with praying; I have a problem with people who link prayer to salvation so closely that the two can be confused. There is no reason a person has to pray when they believe.

Very true and an important point in this discussion.

Hey, Welcome to the big BB, friend.

 

I agree that Christ's sacrifice is the central source of our salvation. However, your statement is not correct. Christ not only asked people to say something He asked them to do something to be saved. He asked the rich young ruler to sell all he had and give it to the poor. He told Nicodemus that he must be born again. In general, Christ asked his followers to follow Him or to pick up their cross and follow him.

 

I believe that we can avoid much confusion
if we but trust, and slowly read the following Scriptures. John 6:37,"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" pay particular attention to that last phrase, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Question would saying a sinner's prayer be considered coming to the Lord?


Also it might be helpful to look at Romans 10:14 and study the first phrase in that Scripture. Just thought I'd make some suggestions.

 

Again are we not getting trapped in the need for tangible proof of salvation ? I am afraid the sinners prayer has become a way of man trying to place God in our debt. When we place any act of man other than belief whether it is a prayer, baptism, or good works in the act of salvation then we have taken away the finality of Christ death. Christ made this statement in Luke 19:10 For the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (KJV) I have no problem with the prayer, it is wonderful to express our faith in words but to attribute some supernatural power to an act of man is like baptizing an infant and telling them all their lives they are safe.

 

Not to obtain salvation, he didn't. The closest he could come would be the rich young ruler, but it is clear that he wasn't saying 'give all you have and you're saved', but was testing his willingness to give all for Christ--his true heart's condition.

I stand by my statement that neither Christ nor anyone else in the NT ever asked someone to pray at the time of their salvation.

Good posts, TButler.

 

I agree. Paul said over and over all you had to do to be saved was believe in Jesus as the Christ. Believe + nothing.

 

Tom no offense is taken and I am not new. I could not recover my password after being absent a period and had to re-register on the BB.

I would ask you to take a breath and there is no need in being “nervous”. I feel I was concise with my postings and gave Scripture to back up my statements. This is something which I make a point to do. You have drawn many erroneous conclusions as you have tried dissecting every aspect of my statements. I cannot answer every charge you have put forth but hope this posting will suffice. I would also encourage you to re-read my postings and take them as they are.


Again, I was simply trying to defend such as the “sinner’s prayer”, as a good prayer for various reasons. Secondly, I Biblically corrected a statement that Rubato had made in regards to prayer. He has since clarified himself.


I did not declare one can gain salvation from simply reading aloud such as the “sinners prayer”. Nor would I ever state such is the model to follow or give weight to it! The Word of God, as contained in the Holy Bible, is the authority for us, period. Do not take offense with my use of the word “recite” either. The “sinners prayer” is most often, or always, written on some sort of card for convenience. It is for the individual to read. When I said “recite” I was referring to an individual reading the prayer, be it to himself or others. Let’s avoid schematics.


I would like to clarify further. Because of my job I deal a lot with repossessed vehicles. We often come across Bibles or printed prayers as the “sinners prayer”. I keep the Bibles and other religious items(crucifixes etc) and ever so often take these to Good Will. My employee’s are instructed to do the same and are happy to do so. Unless it is something they wish to keep themselves. I often “read” these prayers which are printed on cards because I like to know what is said and who printed it. Many times I will say Amen after reading one or am moved to say a quick prayer myself. Just to thank God if nothing else.

I do not give weight to such as the “sinners prayer” over the Bible and would never advocate such! For the life of me I cannot see how anyone could have ever gathered that. However, I do see how it can act as a tool for God and possibly bring lost people to Christ and/or act to reassure others’ of their salvation. Who otherwise may have prominent people causing them to question their salvation by conditioning it with “works”. This is a pretty concise statement Tom.

It is not a hypothetical scenario as I have seen it with some friends and can tune into some preachers who preach as that. I have had friends who believed they might go to hell, even though they knew Christ as their Savior, because they may have drank a beer, danced or dressed in a fashion contrary to their Church doctrine. In those cases I did not say “here read this prayer”. I would simply point out Scripture in order to somewhat reassure them of their salvation. At times it simply became a debate as seen on BB. Another prominent example which I could point out is with the various Church doctrines on Baptism.

In regards to the Positive Confessions movement as you described I would not agree with it. What matters is within your heart and if your heart hates God then nothing you utter or recite will change your destiny. I do not think we can compel God to do anything but we do have assurances from Him. However, if there is Scripture which supports that notion then I would ask it to be presented for consideration.


I did attempt to offer some points to ponder which obviously has caused some confusion. Again, I never do such without offering Scripture. We can agree there are some things truly only Christ can know which we may never fully understand until we are with our Lord in Heaven. I say this because some Scripture can be interpreted in different ways. You can agree with this statement? Otherwise there would be complete unity among Christians with nothing ever to debate in regards to Scripture or certain topics.


Again, I would not say a person can be saved by simply praying the “sinners prayer”. However, I can see how some could argue that point and gave scripture showing that.


In continuing; I believe the Holy Ghost calls us to salvation, which is what the majority of Christians believe based upon understanding of the Bible.

I believe the Holy Ghost calls upon us to come to know and “accept” Christ as our Savior. If one rejects this calling your fate is sealed. The above Scriptures, and much more could be offered, surely shows God to be calling people in such a fashion. This is as best I can describe it so forgive me if it is poorly done. The Bible states “the hope of His calling ”; “the prize of the upward call”, “called us with a holy calling…according to His own purpose and grace”.

BibleGateway;
Calling; a profession, or as we usually say, a vocation (1 Cor. 7:20). The "hope of your calling" in Eph. 4:4 is the hope resulting from your being called into the kingdom of God.

Grace; Favour, kindness, friendship (Gen. 6:8; 18:3; 19:19; 2 Tim. 1:9). (3.) God's forgiving mercy (Rom. 11:6; Eph. 2:5). (5.) Gifts freely bestowed by God; as miracles, prophecy, tongues (Rom. 15:15; 1 Cor. 15:10; Eph. 3:8).


Upon entering our life, when we accept Christ as Savior, the Holy Ghost acts as a “Counselor” and “Comforter”.

You stated nowhere in the Bible are we asked to “accept” Christ or the sacrifice He made on Calvary. You stated acceptance or “accept” was only associated with God accepting us. You stated I was simply repeating what I was taught but Tom I ask you to reference 1 Timothy 15

I would now add John 3:16

Anyone who believes in Christ as the Savior accepts such. Again however, the word “accept” is indeed specifically associated with men as found in 1 Tim 15.


Take care
In Christ,
Ralph