Slavery

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. agedman Well-Known Member
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    What does the Scriptures teach about slavery?

    Leviticus 25:
    44“ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
    Colossians 4:
    1Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven.
    It is self evident that slavery was permitted, and proper treatment was a priority.

    Thought(s)?
     
  2. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    There is a difference between slaves (in the sense of Joseph when sold into slavery) and servanthood in the slavery of the Hebrew culture.

    When men were in need of food, clothing, and shelter, they could "sell" themselves into slavery/servanthood and this is not terribly different from someone getting a job in our culture to gain those same basic needs. The primary reason critics of Scripture condemn "slavery" in Scripture (saying "God is okay with slavery") is because they do not distinguish the difference. Joseph did not have the option of his slavery ending the seventh year:


    Exodus 21
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.

    2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

    3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.

    4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

    5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:

    6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.



    Slavery, in a context of buying, selling, and owning people...is wrong.

    Even today slavery is is a massive problem, and is still going on around the world. Christians are sold into slavery, and there are organizations where for $250 one can set a Christian free.


    God bless.
     
  3. Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    I am of the opinion that slavery was not so much "permitted" as it was "regulated" by God.

    Much like divorce.
    Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
     
  4. agedman Well-Known Member
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    You are not distinguishing between the estate of being a Hebrews and therefore the law forbade them from owning each other as a slave.

    Rather, slavery was by taking non Hebrews of other nations as slaves.
     
  5. agedman Well-Known Member
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    Certainly,

    However, those who would seek a Moses excuse for divorce cannot find such permission given by Christ.
     
  6. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Again, in view is servanthood, not slavery. Did you read the post?

    Now, let's see why some have trouble with God's teaching about "slavery:"

    Exodus 21
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Ordinances for the People

    1 “Now these are the ordinances which you are to set before them:

    2 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.



    Newer translation render it "slave," and the distinction made above (previous post) is not understood.


    God bless.
     
  7. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I would agree with that: He knew men would violate His will so provided instruction for them when they did.


    God bless.
     
  8. agedman Well-Known Member
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    Exodus was revisited and clarified in the writing of Leviticus:

    39‘If a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave’s service. 40‘He shall be with you as a hired man, as if he were a sojourner; he shall serve with you until the year of jubilee. 41‘He shall then go out from you, he and his sons with him, and shall go back to his family, that he may return to the property of his forefathers.42‘For they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt; they are not to be sold in a slave sale. 43‘You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God. 44As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. 45‘Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. 46‘You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.
     
  9. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    As mentioned before, there is not much difference between the slaves mentioned here and someone getting a job in our culture, there is the general principle of meeting basic needs. Food, clothing, shelter.

    A couple observations:


    Leviticus 25:39-41
    King James Version (KJV)

    39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:

    40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile.

    41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.



    The "slavery" is a result of poverty, and need.






    Leviticus 25:44-46
    King James Version (KJV)

    44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

    45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

    46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.



    These "slaves" are a part of Gentile slave trade, And Israel is allowed to buy among them. However, let's move on to some more instruction about Gentile slaves:


    Leviticus 25:47-49
    King James Version (KJV)

    47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:

    48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:

    49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.



    Here we have one of Israel selling himself to a foreigner in the land. Again, the regulations of the People of Israel differ from those of Gentiles, and the slavery is different. Again, it is because of need that those of Israel would be come "Slaves," better rendered as servants. So we look to how God's people were to carry out their dealings with slaves, and not get the idea that God somehow changed His mind about who our neighbor is and how we are to treat him. In the New Testament poor treatment of a slave is viewed in a bad light, not a right. And we can probably conclude that how gentile slaves were treated did not depart from God's will for slaves who were of Israel.

    Also note that the slave, in v.49, can buy himself out of slavery.

    This verse, in the NASB, is translated thus...



    Leviticus 25:49
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    49 or his uncle, or his uncle’s son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or [a]if he prospers, he may redeem himself.


    Footnotes:

    a. Leviticus 25:49 Lit if his hand has reached and


    How many in non Hebrew slavery can prosper, or is able...to buy themselves out of slavery?

    Again I say, the buying and selling of people is wrong. Just as divorce is against the will of God, yet given instruction for, even so slavery, when it is truly slavery, is something God declares by the principles set forth in Scripture as...wrong.


    God bless.
     
  10. FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    The type of slavery discussed in the NT is much like our view of an "indentured servant" or apprentice.

    That is explained in: [Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    There are NO slaves in Christ.
     
  11. Wesley Briggman Active Member
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    Rom 6:16 KJV - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    We are all servants. The question is who is our master? We as Christians are bond-servants of Christ, our Good Master.
     
  12. agedman Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, but Leviticus as posted above is clearly showing you as wrong.

    44“ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
    In short, the ONLY ruthless treatment could be toward not Jews. But slaves who were not citizens were not accorded the privileges of citizens.
     
  13. agedman Well-Known Member
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    Certainly, there is no DIFFERENCE when it comes to salvation, for that is clearly declared.

    But there is no reason to consider slavery in the NT was "much like our view of an indentured servant or apprentice."
     
  14. FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    I should have clarified my remark. There was slavery in NT times just as there is slavery today. The Bible said that Christians did not practice real slavery then as they should not practice it today. The slavery among CHRISTIANS in NT times was like indentured servitude today. My statement "in Christ" says that. Those that are in Christ do not enslave their fellow human beings because to Jesus we are all the same.
     
  15. agedman Well-Known Member
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    Because believers are relatives, just as were the Israelites were a nation of relatives, then believers could be considered under that principle.

    As far as the principle being applied generally, perhaps you could supply Scripture support?

    For if that principle carries the water to that trough of relative exclusion, then that same principle has no warrant to exclude those outside the faith from being taken as slaves and slaves may be gathered from them.

    That would follow the OT law which was given in type for guidance.
     
  16. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    True, but the point I am trying to make is that we distinguish between the differing types of "slavery." The slavery of Joseph, for example, and the slavery of the World.

    As it was suggested earlier, God did address issues that do not necessarily jibe with His will, but provided instruction because He knew that men would be tangled up in these issues. Divorce is a good example. It is not God's will that divorce take place, but because of the hardness of men's hearts He allowed that precept.


    God bless.
     
  17. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Okay, Aged Man, you believe God condoned ruthless treatment of slaves by His People. I get it. No conflict there at all.

    And with that, no point in being in this thread, so enjoy.


    God bless.
     
  18. agedman Well-Known Member
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    No, that is a total mischaracterization!

    There was NOTHING posted by Scriptures or by me as to brutal treatment being acceptable!

    What was pointed out was that error concerning the concept of some “indentured servitude” was that presented by the use of the word slavery in the Scriptures. It was not, any more then a concubine was just another word for a live-in maid.

    Slaves were considered property. OT was specific as to the permanence (or not) of a slave.
     
  19. Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Okay, last post (taking a break and yours is the only post to address, lol)



    Not at all. Apparently you did not read my post/s.

    The point was specific to the misconception of critics that God condones slavery, and I suggest to you, again, that He does not.

    Read what I said again:

    Now read what the Scripture quoted states:





    You say...

    ...which itself is wrong, not only shown in the Scripture quoted, but it is the very point I made, lol. To distinguish between the "slavery" within Israel, and slavery according to the world.

    Try reading posts before responding to them, and you might save a little time.

    As far as...

    ...horse feathers.

    And I quote...

    See any correlation there?

    Secondly, we see that in this supposed "revisiting" the countryman was still treated as a servant, or, in today's terminology...an employee.


    First, don't yell at me, I have sensitive eyes...

    Secondly, and I quote...

    Perhaps what needs to be revisited are your posts...before you post them.


    Horse feathers.

    The concept of the servant has been shown you several times.


    And could be treated ruthlessly, according to you.

    Which, as I said, is contrary to the Will of God, as taught in the principles of Scripture.


    Oh, thanks for clarifying slavery for me.

    As I said, not a thread that interests me.


    God bless.
     
  20. agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps you need to reread the portion I posted on Leviticus.

    44“ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.


    Notice that last statement?

    God states that the Israelites were not to be ruled over ruthlessly. BUT, that did NOT include the slaves from the nations around them.

    You apparently are missing this in order to hold some "Indentured servant" view of slavery.

    Perhaps there is information about the treatment of "Indentured servants" that is needing to be addressed.

    I will use the very early years of the colonization of the US as the typical treatment.

    The master has two people. One a slave, one an indentured servant. The slave is for the life of the master and can be handed down to the children (see the Leviticus quote above). The indentured servant was for a few years and then had to be gifted land and sustenance as a parting gift of release from service (a severance package).

    Now, here is a scenario for you to consider.

    There is a life threatening job to be done. Which one of the two will you send to do the work?