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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member

    Nov 4, 2011
    I do not see slavery as not permitted in the Scriptures.

    It is allowed and obliged under the OT Israeli justice system, and the NT does not condemn it.

    Your thoughts?
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Active Member

    Mar 10, 2012
    It is not "obliged" under the OT system.....The OT system has a set of laws and rules which regulate what is permitted, but it is not "obliged". Does that make sense? In other words... there were regulations established for how the already existing "slavery" system might be applied....but those regulations served to place the appropriate limitations upon how "slavery" might be properly applied....it does not, strictly speaking....establish slavery as a practice.

    "Slavery" simply was not generally understood or practiced in the same sense in the ancient Eastern world as it was in the 17th-19th centuries in the Western World..... We have to divorce ourselves of the correlation between those two respective practices...In short, "slavery" as understood in the OT was more akin to "indentured servitude" or the working off of owed debt. It was not understood in the same sense as the somewhat racially centered and perpetual status as it was in the Western practice later understood by us (as Westerners) in the 17th to 19th Centuries.

    As far as the NT is concerned...Christ did not, neither did Paul (see Philemon) condemn the practice (as understood in the Eastern world at the time). This is NOT to be understood as a tacit agreement with it...it is simply that neither Christ nor Paul had, as their goal, some sort of moral societal reformation in mind. Christ (as you know) did not come to be a moral reformer, he wasn't Mahatma Ghandi, he came to save us from sin....Christ's "teachings" except as they referenced himself and his mission were not a morally ground-breaking set of teachings...Jesus (sorry to say) did not originate the "turn the other cheek" idea, nor was he introducing unheared of thoughts with "love your enemies" Buddha pulled that off centuries before Jesus. I always liked C.S. Lewis's quote here:

    “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”[/U]
    Hope this is decent "short" answer.....I could add more, but this is already as long as need be. Great OP question!!! :thumbsup:
    #2 HeirofSalvation, Jun 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2012
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Well-Known Member

    May 22, 2002
    Depends on what you mean by slavery. Are you talking about what mentioned in the law or what took place in our nation and still takes place across the world.

    Three things.
    An Old Testament teaching: Exodus 21:16 – “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.”

    (2) A New Testament teaching: 1 Timothy 1:8-10 – “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,…”

    (3) A commentary on what Biblical slavery was about: from http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

    The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated. Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

    The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.
  4. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

    Feb 10, 2004
    Paul's short letter of Philemon gives us a glimpse into his handling of the situation that might teach us a thing or two about how we handle difficult societal problems. Elsewhere, paul says things like "slaves, obey your masters, masters, treat your slaves well...remember you are all in Christ." He does NOT SEEK to abolish it through community action or reform.

    In Philemon, instead he petitions one slave owner to release his slave for the higher purpose of service to Christ. He does not go after legislators, he goes after the heart of the one who needs to change his view of his "property."
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    God allowed for it under old testament, as he also allowed for Divorce, "permitted it", due to "hardness of their hearts"...

    IMportant disnction between OT slavery and say American is that it was regulated for under the law of God, had to be treated humanly, and MANY of the slaves were those who were paying off debts owed, be like working to pay off obligations owed to creditors!

    And the roman slavery was more akin to servants working in homes/businesses to pay off their debts, NOT what we call slavery!
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Mar 1, 2004
    There are three kinds of slavery, two permitted and one was not. One is where you sell yourself as an indentured servant and had to be set free in the 7th year.

    Another was where people were taken in war as captives and kept as slaves, but there was conditions for their treatment.

    The last was if someone was kidnap like what was done by those in this nations early years with the blacks. That called for the death penalty.

    So the same principles would apply today. If someone works for us they would be considered our slave even if we do not like the term. If a person is forced against their will we should be held accountable under our laws. I have long held that no person could be a Christian and have slaves (forced slavery) like those in our early history and I base that on 1John 3:10
  7. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

    Mar 23, 2001
    The Israelis treated Jewish slaves( we would call them indentured servant today) different from Gentile slaves. The Gentile slaves who were acquired and sold in the pagan world. These remained the perpetual property of the family, and were treated as slaves in the social sense of the word (Lev. 25:44-46).
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member

    Feb 9, 2004
    Accomodation is often the same as permitting something to happen. Outside of the above noted references in the replies I also refer you to the household codes of the NT and the book of Philemon where treatment of slaves is brought up by Paul.

    Likewise it should be noted (and FAL makes a good point) there are different kinds of slavery than the immoral and unbiblical practice most Americans are familiar with.