So how many people has your church reached?

Wow, I thought I actually qualified may statements by saying it depends on if the people are straitforward with their intentions.

I thought I actually gave you a big "agreed!", agreeing with your statement about not being manipulative.

BTW, as far as meeting a need..., is there no place where you live that sells coffee and donuts? And is that really "meeting a need" in a biblical sense?

peace to youraying:

 

From what you have stated, it seems perfectly acceptable as part of a biblical ministry, at least, IMHO.

peace to youraying:

 

Beyond the whole coffee and doughnuts thing, how many of you were tricked into attending a gospel presentation when you were a teenager by an evangelist that spoke at the school about "relationships" or "living a good life", etc?

When I was a junior in high school, we had a special speaker come to our school for an assembly. He talked about relationships and making the most of our lives. Then, at the end of the program, he invited everyone to a local union hall for a free pizza supper and "a very short program" at 6:00 pm.

A friend of mine wanted to go, so I decided to go with him. Unfortunately, we had to pick up his sister from a school at 7:30 pm. From the way he talked, we expected it to be over (or nearly over) about that time, so we decided we could probably go.

We went.

When we walked in the door, a bunch of Pentecostal women (they had the long hair, no makeup, denim skirts, etc.) were walking in with pizzas from various pizza places (and some from home) and we were told we would get to eat after the program.

Fair enough. Their treat, their rules.

My friend and I sat down near the back so we could leave if things went too long. The evangelist walked up on the stage and started the program. Like in a Baptist church, no one sat on the first few rows, so he asked everyone in the back to fill out the front rows. Almost everyone moved forward but us, and we explained to the ushers that we had an obligation a little before 7:30 and didn't want to disrupt if we had to slip out. The evangelist saw that we weren't coming forward and said, "No one is going to get to eat until the two of you come up here to the front row."

Annoyed, we gave in and sat on the front row. The evangelist started in on a rambling presentation of a Baptisty-type gospel message which to me (a kid who had grown up in church and had been a Christian for 3+ years) was nearly indecipherable, stating that only those who truly "hate Christ" would reject the "plain truth" of his message. He ranted and raved for well over an hour, and I was watching the clock creep ever closer to 7:30. Finally, at about 7:25, when he had a number of people crying (probably because they were nervous, hungry and confused), he open the "altars" for people to come forward and renounce the devil and give our lives to "Je-zuz".

By the time the music started playing, it was 7:30, and my friend's sister was likely waiting in a dark parking lot for us to pick her up. I told me friend that we needed to go ahead and slip out, we had told the ushers we would need to leave by that time, so I didn't think there would be an issue.

We stepped out of the front row and walked back up the aisle. As soon as we started walking, the evangelist started shouting at us, telling us we were "rejecting Jesus and declaring our love for the devil." My friend wavered a bit but I kept walking, incredibly angry that he was trying to manipulate us and spread the false testimony that we were rejecting Christ. We walked out the door, past the very cold pizzas, and got in my friend's pickup truck and pulled out of the parking lot. We were 10 minutes late getting my friend's sister (she was not happy, waiting in the dark in a potentially unsafe place) and we were upset that we had been manipulated, had been promised a meal (one they really weren't serious about giving us), and had been invited to the meeting under a misleading pretense.

The next day at school, a bunch of people congratulated us on rejecting "the gospel" (although we tried to explain to people who didn't know us very well that we were Christians - although not quite that kind of Christian - and we had to keep a commitment). I found out that our "brave rejection" of the evangelist actually inspired most of the people in the meeting to walk out en masse a couple of minutes after we did. Just about the only people who were left were the "churchy" kids who would feel too guilty to walk out on a preacher. They were the only ones who got any pizza, and they reported the pizza was very cold (it had been sitting out well over two hours) and the church sponsors were very snippy about the whole thing, apparently talking out their frustration that the youth evangelism event didn't work out the way they expected on the teens who actually stayed to the bitter end.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with serving coffee, doughnuts, pizza, etc., as long as you actually care about serving the people you attract and are NOT using it as bait. The gospel message doesn't need bait. The only letters of recommendation (to paraphrase Paul) it desires is the loving and transformed lives of people who are putting the gospel into action by loving and serving others. If you are loving and serving people with food or events, fantastic! If you are trying to bait people you don't/won't love and serve with food or events, you've already failed.

 

Like a former pastor of mine loved to yell/bellow/preach... "You bring 'em in with a hot dog, the devil will get 'em back with a hamburger!"

 

I don't have a number but I know through our street ministry we talk to at least 100 people a month, we prepare sack lunches and take blankets and jackets to the homeless in downtown Houston. Someone always presents the Gospel before we pass out anything.

 

I don't think it's really possible to accurately count how many people we've "reached." We may touch lives in some simple way without ever knowing it. The children in the church today may grow up and become great leaders for the Lord thanks to what they're learning today. Someone might simply see the cars in our parking lot and feel God's conviction to come back to him. . .you just never know.

Baptism in and of itself cannot be used as a measuring stick for the Lord's using us.