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Social Conservative Leaders Feel Scapegoated

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, May 12, 2009.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    When religion or religious people become closely connected with politics, politics does not become clean, but religion and the religious people involved become dirtied. Read on:





    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ervatives_leaders_feel_scapegoated_96435.html
     
  2. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    So only nonChristian, unprincipled people should lead us?

    I can agree with one thing: insofar as we as Christians shouldn't make ourselves beholden to one particular party. But nowhere do I find a directive from God that we should not use our influence to lead others.

    The idea that "Christians shouldn't involve themselves in political matters" is ludicrous, IMO. We shouldn't involve ourselves in the lying, back-stabbing, etc., that often accompanies politics. But if we aren't involved, that only leaves the Godless. Bad idea.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    You hit the nail on the head with your comment on Christians not becoming too closely attached to one political party. That is what happened to these men and it has come back to bite them.

    Yes, we should influence politicians as much as we can. But we should never be tied to them. And, yes Christians can lead. We are talking here not about individuals being politicians, but as you indicated, religious persuasions becoming tainted by beind identified with one party and are identified as being part of the, as you so well put it, lying, back-stabbing etc. of the radical wing of the GOP. Is this deserved? Each person will have to decide that for themself on this one. But by becoming so closely tied to the GOP these men, IMHO, have done harm to the cause of carrying the message of Christ to the world.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    And then it would behoove social liberals to get out of the Democratic party. It is a knowlingly false idea that only conservatives tend to gravitate to one particular party. And those who make such claims know it is false when the open their mouths. But then again honesty is not always their best character. The fact is we all gravitate toward the party the most reflects our values. The hypocrisy of the left and the op is astounding.
     
    #4 Revmitchell, May 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  5. Andy T.

    Andy T. New Member

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    Yes, it would behoove liberals like Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo to not be so beholden to a particular party, especially one that has in its official platform the unfettered right to abortion and even at public expense.
     
  6. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    Now that it is settled that Christians of all stripes should not be tied too closely to any political party let's discuss another aspect of this thread.

    Are the GOP critics of the social conservatives correct in their criticism or is this not a valid criticism?

    Are the leaders of the GOP at fault in pursueing policies that have narrowed the base of GOP supporters?

    Who is at fault for making the party the party of "No," as in no viable policy, no new ideas, no positive message in the eyes of the public at large?
     
  7. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    Now that it is settled that Christians of all stripes should not be tied too closely to any political party let's discuss another aspect of this thread.

    In whose mind is it settled. Why is it that only Christians (of all stripes) should not be tied too closely to any political party. Why not say that nobody should be too closely tied. Why can't Christians support those who best represent their values, and even be outspoken about it.

    Are the GOP critics of the social conservatives correct in their criticism or is this not a valid criticism?

    Critics whether GOP or otherwise are just that, critics. There criticism is not validated by the fact they are GOP. Their criticism is their opinion and my opinion is that they are off base in many instances.


    Are the leaders of the GOP at fault in pursueing policies that have narrowed the base of GOP supporters?

    If choosing the right course narrows the base, as it often does, then they are right in their choice!
    I understand and believe the world will wax worse and worse (not my own words). I just don't want to be part of the cheering section as it happens.

    Who is at fault for making the party the party of "No," as in no viable policy, no new ideas, no positive message in the eyes of the public at large?

    I could take pride in being the party of "No".
    No abortion.
    No unreasonable taxes.
    No socialism............. This could be fun!

    We further have a major disagreement to which party has no viable policy, no new ideas, no positive message.




     
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member

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    What do you get when we mix the pulpit and politics? We get politics.

    Politics have no business in the pulpit. Maybe these leaders should be scapegoated. When was the last time my home denomination had anything in their press about a faithful Democratic candidate? When we use the church to vilify people we get what we deserve.

    There are two rules about politics that we can't forget:
    1. That a politician is, by nature, a lying person. Their promises never are accomplished and they will say whatever is needed to get their votes.
    2. Every party, at some point, will be out of favor for time. Those who identify with them will be maligned and have causes beat up.

    When we become so entangled with these people and forget the essential mission that Christ sent us to accomplish we fail at being Christian. We will never change people's hearts and see them won to the Gospel through legislation.

    Now we can attempt to speak into the modern culture through legislation, but should not be surprised when we are shouted down. Our response should always be humility and grace in those times. Too many evangelicals get angry and allow the flesh to be seen when we are voted down.

    We can ask people to live morally, but should we be surprised when they decide not to do so? I'd love to see evangelicals get past the two issue group and move into a larger conversation with those in our culture.
     
  9. Andy T.

    Andy T. New Member

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    I'm glad that William Wilberforce never "got past" the slave trade in Britain. He rightly saw that as the most pressing moral (and political) issue of his day. Abortion is that issue today. May we never "get past" it.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    This thread should be in the political section. The very idea of associating a Holy God or any aspect of the Scripture with one of the two made in the pits of hell political parties, is to be nice about it, an outrage. Think about what and who makes up the leadership of the two parties and the offices they hold in Washington over the last say 20 years. How does the God of the Bible in any shape, form, or fashion resemble greed, self-indulgence, power mongering, inept leadership skills, and not caring one ounce about those they were elected to serve.

    OK, now back to the discussion of which party is more godly.

    This thread is pathetic.
     
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