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Featured Son of God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 22, 2022.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This phrase appears about 42 times in the New Testament, preeminently as describing Jesus. The meaning is Jesus is God's Son. Now the word translated as "son" usually refers to a biological offspring, thus a "son" would be thought of as being fathered or created by another. However, we know that Logos, the Second Person of the Trinity, was termed "Son" as being forever and ever, thus eternal, thus never created.

    Some, in my opinion mistakenly, think Logos became a "son" when Logos became "flesh" (God incarnate) but the majority view is that Logos functioned in His subordinate role, one who fulfills the Father's purpose, eternally.

    However, if we take an alternate view, then the Greek word translated "son" does not always refer to something fathered or originated, but rather as someone who follows and obeys another. Thus when we see "Son of God" and think "God's Son, as if God originated Him, we are on the wrong track. Rather the idea is actually God's emissary. "An emissary is often a person who is sent somewhere in order to act as a representative."

    Now is it not also true that Mary, while a virgin conceived Jesus? Of course it is true! Since she was a virgin, and therefore had never been "penetrated" (to use a euphemism) either her egg was supernaturally fertilized or God created Jesus within her womb ex nilo. Scripture can support either view, but since He is referred to as being a blood line descendant of David, through Mary, I lean toward the supernaturally fertilized egg possibility.

    But to repeat, I do not think that is what is meant by the usage of "Son of God" phrase, but rather the phrase refers to His mission on earth.

    Let us consider one of the early uses of the phrase, Matthew 4:6-7. Here Satan says (paraphrasing) "if you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because God's word says His angels will catch you." But Jesus answers by citing God's word not to test God, thus acting as God's emissary.
     
    #1 Van, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    God incarnate revealed God to us, such that some would believe in Him and be united with Him, and therefore become predestined to be redeemed in a glorified body at Christ's second coming. The parable of the Landowner, who sent his son to the vine-growers is on point, Mark 12:1 and Luke 20:9.
     
    #2 Van, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    From whence did Logos receive his flesh? Was it from the seed of the woman?

    Mitochondrial DNA – Your Mom’s Story | DNAeXplained – Genetic Genealogy (dna-explained.com)

    Is that article relative to Jesus of Nazareth?

    Exactly how was, "1:14 Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν - And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us," the seed of David and the seed of Abraham? When did the Logos become their seed? Or was Jesus of Nazareth the seed of David and Abraham?

    And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Luke 1:31.32

    Is that speaking of the Logos made flesh, the Christ, the Son of the Living God?



    3:14 וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל־מֹשֶׁה אֶֽהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶֽהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶֽהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם׃

    Just a statement? Maybe statement and prophecy? Exactly how does God become the seed of David and Abraham or does he?
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I already provided my answer in post #1.
     
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    “Seed” in that context means descendent. That his earthly father, Joseph, was a descendent of David made Jesus a descendent of David.

    I’ve heard people argue Mary was also a descendent of David, which is possible I suppose, but scripturally it makes no difference.

    Peace to you
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In Psalm 2, verses 1-7, scripture refers to the same entity as the "anointed" and as God's Son.

    That may be why the Jews at the time thought of them together, Mathew 26:63.
     
    #6 Van, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was legally a descendant of David through His supposed father Joseph, but was biologically David's descendant through Mary. Anyway, that is the view I believe is correct.
     
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Concerning the biological ancestry of Jesus, these verses indicate Jesus was from the seek of David, i.e his biological descendant. This by logical necessity requires Mary's blood line to be of David's line.

    See John 7:42, Romans 1:3 and 2 Timothy 2:8.

    And reaching back even more, Hebrews 2:16 indicates His ancestry goes back to Abraham and God's promise concerning Abraham's seed. (Galatians 3:16)
     
    #9 Van, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you believe. “Seed” means descendent. In reference to Jesus, He is a “descendent” of David based on Joseph being a descendent: Matthew 1:16, Luke 2:4.

    Scripture specifically mentions Joseph’s lineage because it fulfills the prophecy. Mary’s lineage is never mentioned that I know of.

    Peace to you
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As I said, Joseph provides the legally valid line, but Mary the biological line. You seem to deny Jesus was the biological seed of Abraham.

    Referring to your Matthew 1:16, note that the verse says (NASB) "Jacob fathered Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah. Now who do you think "by whom" refers, Mary or Joseph? The reference is to Mary. Did you see where the wife was referenced in any other place in the genealogy of Jesus? Neither did I.
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Ruth and Thamar in Matt
     
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  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, Matthew is making it clear Joseph did not father Jesus.

    All I’m saying is. it is unnecessary to go beyond what scripture reveals and speculate that Mary was descended from David. However, it simply isn’t worth arguing about.

    In the OP, there is a given possibility that Mary’s “egg” wasn’t used at all, but that God form the child from nothing.

    That makes sense. Regardless, you must accept that God created the sperm to fertilize the egg from nothing so why not the whole body of Jesus? Growing inside Mary like every other child ever born?

    peace to you
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget Rahab the harlot and other women.

    peace to you
     
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  15. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    All of humanity was supposed to be God on earth as sons of God. This was by maintaining obedience. The only law was placed in the hands of one human son of God, Adam. After that one disobedience Adam died, was no longer a son of God physically nor spiritually.

    So being God's son was already a creation in Genesis 1:26-27.

    So when Jesus was born into Adam's dead corruptible flesh, He did not take on any of the physical and spiritual death, as a son of God. Jesus was 100% God. Jesus was 100% a son of God. Jesus was able to hide His true form. He only revealed it once to Peter, James, and John on the mount of Transfiguration.

    Jesus was the complete son of God. Jesus was also the complete son of man, because He was able to be seen as a human starting from conception, through all the stages of human development.

    "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

    John saw a son of God on the mount of Transfiguration. And as sons of God, redeemed humans will be fully restored at the Second Coming. Sons of God were the literal image of God created to exist on earth along with all of creation. The Word represents and is all that is physical and spiritual in creation in one being.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

    The Word was what spoke light into creation and gave all of creation life.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Because Jesus is said to be the seed of David and Abraham.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I see I need to correct or at least clarify this post. Yes, I was mistaken in stating or implying that no other women were "mentioned" in the genealogy of Jesus. What I should have said is that in no other place does the blood line pass through the women mentioned in the genealogy.


    Matthew 1:3 "
    Judah fathered Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez fathered Hezron, and Hezron fathered Ram.​
    Here the blood line is through Perez, Hezron and Ram.


    Matthew 1:5
    Salmon fathered Boaz by Rahab, Boaz fathered Obed by Ruth, and Obed fathered Jesse.​
    Here the blood line is through Boaz, Obed and Jesse.


    Matthew 1:6
    Jesse fathered David the king. David fathered Solomon by, Bathsheba.​
    Here the blood line is through Jesse, David, and Solomon.

    In the Luke account the above women are not mentioned. However in Luke 3:23, a disclaimer is included as question the common belief that Joseph was the actual biological father of Jesus. So again, by logical necessity, not conjecture, if Jesus was indeed the biological seed of David and Abraham, that blood line came through Mary.

    How do we surmise Mary was from David's blood line?
    Luke 1:32,
    “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;

    Here Mary is told her baby is related to David.
     
    #17 Van, Jun 23, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
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  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 1:1-14 expresses God the Son as being eternal. When Jesus is presented to the angels as the firstborn, this phrase is stating that when the angels were created, God the Son was presented to them as their Commander. The second person of the being we call God, was presented to the angels. He is above them because He is eternal. Hebrews 1 makes this clear.

    Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.” But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”? Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
     
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here we have the false assertion that the consequence of Adam's sin is passed biologically to his descendants. That is wrong. Note Eve entered her fallen state after she had been created. And how are we dead in our sins? By being spiritually dead, separated from God, rather than being physically dead. Yes, we are mortal, but that is another discussion.

    And yes, other created beings are called "Sons of God" such as Adam and every born anew believer. Also children of God. But only God incarnate is uniquely divine. And so Jesus is both the Christ and Son of God for the purpose of providing salvation of some of humanity, everyone believing into Him.
     
  20. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"
     
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